In what circumstances would you support reorganization or closing?

[Tom Earp]

Many great ideas and posts were mentioned in this thread.

First, the DZ and DePaw situation was a fiasco for DZ and gives a black eye for all greeks looked at by outsiders.

Closing a chapter in a R M situation is often tenious. If a few members haze should the whole chapter be held accountable? No. If it is a continuing situation then should the whole chapter be closed? Yes.

Membership.

Who decides what is the total membership?
Most NIC want to have their chapters at least within 10% of all Greek membership of Fraterities. There has to be some limits as how low you can go as I have been told. (this brings up the reason why).
When visitations to chapters by paid HQ members, it cost the same for a 100 person chapter as it does for a 10 person chapter. So the per cost of getting the bang for the buck is a problem there. Where does a National spend the money to get its best worth? Numbers, yes, of course they are important. But are they that vital unless they are so low as to not be functional?

Money owed to Nationals?

Pay your bills, that is the life blood of any Greek Organization and makes it work!

Get in arrears and get into trouble.

Being a Greek National Organization is a Multi Million Dollar business and needs to be run as such. Each member and chapter is a share holder.

Today, many National Organizations are not flush with deep pockets. They are run on a strict budget and cuts have been coming for all of us.

Is there a difference between NIC and NPC being the two largest of the GLO's and thinking, yes there is. Should there be some change in thinkings, maybe.

Food for thought!

[ForeverRoses]

The sorority I was talking about that turned itself into a club- since I wasn't part of it, I'm not sure if they were an official alumnae association or not, but from a University standpoint, in order to have access to meeting rooms and other resources, they had to be a recognized as a "club" by campus life-- so that's what they were. (as for the policy of joining I believe they were technically open to all, but but who would want to join a club that was for alum XYZ members?)

[FSUZeta]

tom:

"total is the allowable chapter size, as determined by the College Panhellenic, and includes both new members and initiated members," as quoted from the NPC green book. "it is determined after studying the current size of the chapters, the availability of potential members, the expected growth in college enrollment and the most desirable chapter size for the campus."

"total figures should be realistic to result in the majority of chapters reaching total chapter size. if all of the chapters are about the same size, a reasonable Total may be determined by dividing the total number of new members and initiated members by the number of chapters."

"reevaluation of the total chapter size may be desirable when the majority of chapters reach and/or exceed the established total, or when no chapter has reached the established total size in several years."

"RESOLVED, that college panhellenic councils prior to evaluation and/or changing total chapter size consult with the NPC area advisor who shall notify NPC delegates with chapter on the campus of this evaluation."

[ForeverRoses]

Since I have never personally been involved in this, does anyone know of a circumstance where a quick-turnaround reorganization or recolonization actually worked? It would seem to me that if a chapter lost it's charter it would take AT LEAST a year or two to get over the stigma of having lost it's charter (regardless of reason) and then I would think that it would take a major PR effort to get the ball rolling (which I can't see happening if you have disgruntled alum members walking around campus).

In a nutshell, I would think that a group would want to stay off campus for at least 3 years before even attempting to return. But what do I know?

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by ForeverRoses

Since I have never personally been involved in this, does anyone know of a circumstance where a quick-turnaround reorganization or recolonization actually worked? ?

Alpha Gamma Delta at Ohio State underwent a reorganization this past quarter and is doing wonderfully.

[FSUZeta]

but was agd on campus continously or did they take some time off and then came back on?

[banditone]

Sometimes you have to close up shop, allow all to go alumni and graduate, and start new - build the house rep from the ground up. Usually along with breaking ground or opening a new house.

Usually with a nationals rep on campus for a year.

[carnation]

A sorority reorganized recently at Ga Southern and from what I hear, is doing great! My daughter went through recruitment before the reorganization and said that they were the one group almost everyone cut the first day because the members were so unenthusiastic. You know how at a lot of rushes, the members sing and clap at each house as you're entering? She said the members just stood there and watched them silently as they entered.

I can see why the national office reorganized. On a campus like that, you don't have enough girls who are 'not your typical sorority girl' to fill the house and pay bills, etc. Either you're the type or if you aren't, you participate in the tons of other activities on that campus. It was simply a downward spiral for the chapter.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

but was agd on campus continously or did they take some time off and then came back on?

We were on campus last semester. The existing collegians were given alumna status. There's a thread about it in the Recruitment forum. Two of our international officers went there in person and talked with the women who were being given alumna status. The women were strongly encouraged to immediatley be active alumnae and were given all of the options available to them to do that, including a Junior Circle, which is what we call our alumnae groups for women under 35. They were wonderful women who had been working very hard and they received recognition for that hard work. They were tired and hadn't had a great collegiate experience since they were struggling with numbers for a while.

This is the second Big 10 school where we've done this in the last 6 years. We also did it at the University of Michigan. That chapter is doing alright, but it has been a slower progression. They had their best recruitment year this year and are still building up numbers, but have shown a huge improvement. Different campuses yield different results.

At Michigan State, the Fraternity chose to not immediately recolonize for various reasons. We are renting that house out to either AOPi or ADPi (sorry, I can't remember which at the moment). We are behind Alpha Xi Delta for recolonization and recruitment is down all over the state due to our extremely poor economic situation, so it's difficult to estimate when that recolonization will happen. We are all pulling for it though. It's one of our earlier chapters.

The decision is based on so many factors that it's really hard to make a blanket rule. Campus climate, finances (especially when there is a house to consider), the general state of other NPCs on campus (you can note that several closed at Michigan State within a couple years of each other so that could be a factor), etc. I think a lot of it ends up being HOW it's done, not whether it is done. It is ALWAYS a heart wrenching decision as Heather pointed out earlier.

On the positive side, one of the chapters I oversee in PA (Lafayette) went from 12 to 43 members this year and we are so excited for them. They happened to find a large group of friends who were interested in joining a sorority together and all of them clicked. Since the initial group, those women have brought in more of their friends. On a campus where Total is 75, they will have a better chance to really compete in Formal Recruitment next fall with around 35 members returning to campus. With 12, it's simply overwhelming. We're very excited for them, but they worked hard and kept an open mind too. It has also been hard work for them to integrate so many newer members into the chapter but they are doing a great job.

[susan314]

Originally Posted by AGDee

We were on campus last semester. The existing collegians were given alumna status. There's a thread about it in the Recruitment forum. Two of our international officers went there in person and talked with the women who were being given alumna status. The women were strongly encouraged to immediatley be active alumnae and were given all of the options available to them to do that, including a Junior Circle, which is what we call our alumnae groups for women under 35. They were wonderful women who had been working very hard and they received recognition for that hard work. They were tired and hadn't had a great collegiate experience since they were struggling with numbers for a while.

This is the second Big 10 school where we've done this in the last 6 years. We also did it at the University of Michigan. That chapter is doing alright, but it has been a slower progression. They had their best recruitment year this year and are still building up numbers, but have shown a huge improvement. Different campuses yield different results.

At Michigan State, the Fraternity chose to not immediately recolonize for various reasons. We are renting that house out to either AOPi or ADPi(sorry, I can't remember which at the moment). We are behind Alpha Xi Delta for recolonization and recruitment is down all over the state due to our extremely poor economic situation, so it's difficult to estimate when that recolonization will happen. We are all pulling for it though. It's one of our earlier chapters.

The decision is based on so many factors that it's really hard to make a blanket rule. Campus climate, finances (especially when there is a house to consider), the general state of other NPCs on campus (you can note that several closed at Michigan State within a couple years of each other so that could be a factor), etc. I think a lot of it ends up being HOW it's done, not whether it is done. It is ALWAYS a heart wrenching decision as Heather pointed out earlier.

AOPi are the ones renting "my house" (sorry, I lived there for several years, so I'll always think of it as "my house" ) - ADPi does not have a chapter at Michigan State.

AGDee has summed it up pretty well. The reorg at University of Michigan and Ohio State both seem to be going very well. (And, in both cases, involved making current undergraduate students alumnae.) However, I agree that the difference with the situation vs. the blow up surrounding the DePauw issue was the way IHQ handled things. Having been involved with Michigan State's chapter almost up to the closing, I think that the women of the chapter would have been receptive to an immediate reorganization/recolonization. (For the reasons AGDee mentioned - having been stressed out from trying to keep a small chapter afloat...alumnae status may have been a welcome break vs. the heavy commitment involved with a recolonization.)

But, I don't think the campus climate would have been as receptive to an immediate recolonization as perhaps OSU and U of M were. As AGDee mentioned, there were other chapters closing around the same time as ours did. Personally, I think that chapter total should have been lowered on campus years before it got to the point where we closed. We lost one chapter (Tri Delts) while I was an undergraduate in the 90s. Of the 16 remaining chapters after Tri Delts left campus, at least 6 were seriously under chapter total. (Chapter total was 110, I believe, at at least 6 chapters were around 60 members or fewer. And there was a stretch of time where only 3 of the 16 sororities had 100 members or more.) 3 chapters - AGD, Alpha Xi Delta, and Phi Mu - closed within a few years of each other shortly after 2000. That left a few other struggling chapters to be the "low men on the numbers totem pole." If chapter total had been lowered in the mid to late 90s, I firmly believe that some (if not all) of the chapters that closed could have been saved. (In retrospect, I wish I would have pushed a little harder to consider the chapter total issue - I served for a year on the Panhellenic Exec Board during a time when it could have possibly turned things around. However, most of the rest of the exec board and the chapter delegates were not receptive to the idea - I had the impression that many of them felt that their Nationals would not "let" them vote to lower total...for reasons I didn't completely know and/or understand.)

[ISUKappa]

Originally Posted by ForeverRoses

Since I have never personally been involved in this, does anyone know of a circumstance where a quick-turnaround reorganization or recolonization actually worked?

I cannot speak for them, but Kappa at Georgia Southern went through reorganization this fall (per vote of the chapter, I believe) and it's my understanding they're doing well.

[Glitter650]

our chapter at U Penn. reorganized back in 2005 I believe. They are doing well, despite some upset when it first happened. I belive it was only a year and a half or two full years of being gone before they recruited again.

[UGAalum94]

Did the reorganization of Alpha Gamma Delta at Ohio State and the reorganization of Kappa at Ga. Southern involve girls going alum while they were still on campus and restarting with a colony picked by an extension team? I'm curious how it could go down so differently than DePauw.

Can you do a re-organization or re-colonization without making the current girls go alum? (I mean, it doesn't seem like the words allow for it, but why couldn't you, in fact, start with the girls you had, rather than from scratch, if they were still going to be on campus anyway?)

Weirdly, I can understand closing the chapter for four years to let everyone graduate and trying to colonize again with a new reputation, but I really hate the idea of dumping the girls that were just recruited in the last few years. It makes it about rejecting them as damaged goods, and that's really distasteful to me. How could it ever communicate anything other than, "If we could only get rid of you, then we can be really cool."

I'm not delusional about what incorporation mean in terms of shared responsibility and costs, but this rhetoric of being businesses is very unattractive. Sure, I know that since the GLOs are incorporated and have costs, members and chapters must meet their financial obligation to the organization. But it shouldn't become about maximizing the money in some way beyond the costs of operation.

I'm not busting on you, Honeychile, but if re-organizations become the wave of the future, national Greek life is done, in my opinion. No one joins a group to be at the mercy of IHQ. They know they are joining a national organization and expect IHQ to serve their needs in living out the sisterhood; they don't regard themselves as the pawns of the ladies at the top. It's also disgusting if you look back on any organization's history and ideals that it would come to that: opening and closing franchises because they weren't profitable enough. No thanks.

[UGAalum94]

Here's my bad analogy: instead of saying we are businesses, I think we should look for a similarity with churches or charities. (And NO, I don't worship Alpha Gamma Delta)

These groups also have expenses and insurance and are often incorporated, but you'd never hear them say, "Well, membership at that location is low, so we're going to close it and start again. And we'll make sure that none of the old members come to the new place because we don't want the reputation to follow us." Instead, maybe they change leadership at the location and give the group support to make sure that it offers what people actually need to be successful and grow.

Now, I know that GLOs are really just social clubs; I'm not kidding myself that they're that spiritual or altruistic. But surely we offer something other than popularity and image to attract members. There's something at the heart of it, right? Tradition, values, support, community, something authentic, right?

ETA: I want to make it clear that I was working on composing my posts before I was able to read ADGee's. I didn't want anyone to think I was being critical of her efforts. I'm glad those chapters are doing well. I'm glad they looked out for the new alums.

[CZAXOTerp]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

Here's my bad analogy: instead of saying we are businesses, I think we should look for a similarity with churches or charities. (And NO, I don't worship Alpha Gamma Delta)

These groups also have expenses and insurance and are often incorporated, but you'd never hear them say, "Well, membership at that location is low, so we're going to close it and start again. And we'll make sure that none of the old members come to the new place because we don't want the reputation to follow us." Instead, maybe they change leadership at the location and give the group support to make sure that it offers what people actually need to be successful and grow.

Actually I know that in many areas, specifically Baltimore where I am from, there have been a number of parishes that have closed due to lack of membership. In some instances parishes have merged w/ others and both "structures" have been kept in use, but the parish communities have been united for #'s purposes sharing staff.
Also I know in many cities Fire houses have been closed for budget and population density reasons- like the churches not a popular move.