Oklahoma State Alpha Phi Alpha Hazing Charges

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

My interpretation is, and Phrozen please correct me if I am wrong, is that he is referring to severe hazing incidents in all GLOs. Very honestly, I do not think it is specific to BGLOs beating someone until they needing plastic surgery to heal the damage.

I'm not reading it about other GLOs, at least not recently, or that I can remember, and for sure, not in my local paper. Yes, there have been alcohol deaths, and there always will be among college kids. Those often have nothing to do with the organization. What's different here is that these beatings were apparently administered when these pledges didn't know some aspect of the fraternity's history. Therefore, it appears that this is part of their new member education program -- something which is inexcusably stupid.

Here's another link where you won't have to register, it's a different article, but the info is basically the same.

http://www.kotv.com/news/local/story/?id=121879

Or he could be responding to the fact that a fraternity member (not identified) was killed. Since I have to register to access the link, I haven't read the whole story. So maybe you could post it here.

That wasn't in the article. I wasn't aware that there was a murder related to this.

In any case, what is your motive for posting this and relegating to just the hazing as opposed to the murder? Again, I can't read the whole article so maybe the relevance is in it?

Didn't know about the murder. I'll reanswer the question as to motive -- it was in my local paper, it was one of the more egregious episodes of hazing I've ever heard of, so I posted it. If Alpha Gamma Rho or Farmhouse or Kappa Alpha Order or Sigma Nu had done the same thing, I would have posted the same article. That it's a BGLO to me is completely irrelevant (although I can see how you'd read "members of some GLOs" to mean that I was picking on BGLOs).

[Wolfman]

As dehumanizing and destructive hazing is, to a large extent,in its most characteristic forms, it does seem to manifest itself differently amongst traditionally white and traditionally black Greek-letter organizations. It I hear of a Greek alcohol-related hazing death, I immediately think this is from one of the white groups. If the person dies or is severely injured due to physical beatings,my first thought is that has to do with an NPHC group or,in some cases, another ethnic Greek organization. (It's not that you don't have cases that may be reversed, but it's very rare.)This is stereotyping--yes;but there's more than a grain of truth to this. It's no accident that NIC- (the traditionally white groups,that is, since a majority of traditional BGLFs are members of the NIC also) and NPC-member groups have spent a tremendous amount of time and resources to address alcohol abuse as a risk management issue and a part of the culture of these groups, hence all the special programs to create a different kind of fraternity life with "dry" houses and an emphasis on the ideals of the groups. And from personal experience, anecdotal evidence across organizations and the millions of dollars spent paying settlements from lawsuitsuits stemming from physical hazing, it's safe to say that there is a culture of hazing amongst BGLOs. This is the reason for the hamfisted (and wrong headed!) attempt to address this by banning pledging in the NPHC in the late '80s. And Dr. Ricky Jones, a Nupe, has addressed this from a theoretical anthropological and sociological vantagepoint in his book, Black Haze:Violence, Sacrifice and and Manhood in Black Greek-Letter Fraternities. My fraternity has had to struggle with this issue mightily because of its machismo reputation and acts perpetrated which have been a source of consternation,embarassment and almost financial calamity. Of late, the Alphas and the Nupes (Kappas) have had a string of major high profile cases of deaths from physical brutality due to hazing. These are not so much anomalies but the extreme manifestation of what charactistically can and does happen in BGLOs. The tacit silence, "winks and nods" and knee-jerk defensiveness to the detractors of BGLOS actually empower these practices as a part of BGLO "culture."

Last year,as chair of a committee of my grad chapter which put on a luncheon, I invited a bruh (Que) to give an inspirational talk. I did so because he is a committed Christian, a research psychiatrist and a good man and Omega brother (bruh). In the talk he spoke about his first real experience of the power of prayer. Ironically,it revolved around a "pre-pledging" incident at the HBCU he was attending as an undergraduate. He went to the Que house on campus, knowing the kinds of things that go on in these "sets." Before he went in he said a fervent, hearfelt prayer for protection. In all that went down that night, nothing happened to him--he wasn't even touched; but another prospective got his jaw broken that evening. He saw this as God's intervention in his behalf. He did go on to pledge and was initiated into Omega throught that chapter. This is not unusual in many places.We have to shine the light on these phenomena and address then head on.Hazing threatens the very existence of all Greeks.

[DSTCHAOS]

Maybe shorter paragraphs will make me read Wolfman's posts.

[neosoul]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Maybe shorter paragraphs will make me read Wolfman's posts.

and simple 5-7 letter words...

[crimsondanger10]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Maybe shorter paragraphs will make me read Wolfman's posts.

Originally Posted by neosoul

and simple 5-7 letter words...

Yep, Yep!

[naraht]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

As dehumanizing and destructive hazing is, to a large extent,in its most characteristic forms, it does seem to manifest itself differently amongst traditionally white and traditionally black Greek-letter organizations. It I hear of a Greek alcohol-related hazing death, I immediately think this is from one of the white groups. If the person dies or is severely injured due to physical beatings,my first thought is that has to do with an NPHC group or,in some cases, another ethnic Greek organization.

Yes, long words and yes, long paragraphs, but I agree with Wolfman. And these "Stereotypes"/Characteristics of the fraternities *are* well known among the leadership in all GLOs and campus administrators.

I disagree with grouping the Sororities with the Fraternities here though. The NPC Sororities, IMO, have supported dry houses more for a sense of avoiding other effects of Sisters being significantly drunk such as rape and public relations with the community. I can't think of the last time I heard of an alcohol related hazing incident at an NPC. Even the stereotypes of Hazing at NPC Sororities (Circling fat on the body) are only likely to lead to death through anorexia...

The NPHC Sororities have issues somewhat similar to the NPHC Fraternities, but again a pale shadow.


I'm not really sure what broken the tradition in the NIC of using paddles on pledges, the 1960s? Some of the groups I've seen with "Paddles", I'd be hard pressed to figure out how to hit a pledge with one without injuring myself.

And as for ethnic, I think that primarily applies to the Hispanic groups, but I don't know enough about the South Asian and East Asian ethnic groups. (I'm on the East Coast). I'm pretty sure it doesn't apply to the older Ethnic Jewish Groups like AEPi, which in practices appear to be almost identical to the other traditionally white group.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by naraht

I disagree with grouping the Sororities with the Fraternities here though. The NPC Sororities, IMO, have supported dry houses more for a sense of avoiding other effects of Sisters being significantly drunk such as rape and public relations with the community. I can't think of the last time I heard of an alcohol related hazing incident at an NPC. Even the stereotypes of Hazing at NPC Sororities (Circling fat on the body) are only likely to lead to death through anorexia...

Not true at all. The primary reason NPC sororities support dry fraternities because it leads to lower liability all around.

(insert some witty comment about how an NPHC'er shouldn't be commenting on how my council works)

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Not true at all. The primary reason NPC sororities support dry fraternities because it leads to lower liability all around.

(insert some witty comment about how an NPHC'er shouldn't be commenting on how my council works)

He did say "in my opinion"..... based on the available publicity, I'd have to agree with him.

[Ch2tf]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Not true at all. The primary reason NPC sororities support dry fraternities because it leads to lower liability all around.

(insert some witty comment about how an NPHC'er shouldn't be commenting on how my council works)

Is Naraht a NPHC'er? I see the APO siggy, no nphc siggy.

[Senusret I]

^^Yeah, that too.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by Ch2tf

Is Naraht a NPHC'er? I see the APO siggy, no nphc siggy.

Oh, my mistake on that one.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Oh, my mistake on that one.

No problem. You aren't the first one to look at Alpha Phi Omega and see Alpha Phi Alpha (If that is the mistake you made). I went to a (in my wife's words) "Geeky White Tech School" (Carnegie-Mellon in Pittsburgh), but have picked up quite a bit of NPHC knowledge over the years looking at how Alpha Phi Omega is different on campuses where the NPHC controls the yard.

Given what you did say, I do wonder whether it would be cheaper for the NPC sororities if FIPG were split in half. I'd love to see some sort of information as to payouts by FIPG between NIC and NPC...

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by Kevin

That wasn't in the article. I wasn't aware that there was a murder related to this.

Did I misread the first sentence in your quote?

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

Did I misread the first sentence in your quote?

"Last January, a University of Oklahoma fraternity member was shot and killed at an off-campus fraternity party sponsored by Stillwater's Alpha Phi Alpha chapter."

[Kevin]

Honestly, I missed that..

.. and you definitely should be able to believe that coming from me