HPV Vaccine: Mandatory?

Drolefille · #1 02-22-2007, 12:50 AM

ZOMG 500 girls out of how many? Reported dizziness, mild fever, and nausea?

And 3 GB? That's ridiculously insignificant.

They didn't play anything down in that article. 524 reported side effects, the vast majority of which appear to be minor out of how many women? If it were 525 women I'd be worried. If it were 1000 women, I'd be worried. It's way more than that. It's out of approximately "hundreds of thousands" who have recieved at least one shot.

Statistics are there for a reason.

blueangel · #2 02-22-2007, 12:59 AM

These are not all the side effects.. these are only the side effects reported to the federal Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System.

Given that many side effects are never reported, I think it's significant that three out of the 500 reported so far were of partial paralysis.

Here's info on the VAERS system:
http://vaers.hhs.gov/vaers.htm

This article cautions about rushing into the vaccine:
http://www.courant.com/news/health/h...mostviewedlink

And an op-ed piece from an MD:
http://cbs5.com/health/local_story_052190156.html

Drolefille · #3 02-22-2007, 01:03 AM

I'm honestly surprised "dizziness" was ever even reported. And GB would be MORE likely to be reported than not. Also the major reporters to VAERS are the drug companies and doctors... they don't seem like they're hiding much or they wouldn't be reporting the majority of the issues.

Basically, your interpretation of the information as "this is being played down and it'll be worse" shows a bias. You're going to keep interpreting through that bias unless you learn to shake it off. Statistics don't innately have bias.

And unless you think you can get people to make medicines for free, yeah, lobbying is gonna happen. (Actually there's a cool NFP that researches treatments/cures for syndromes that aren't common enough to receive enough attention from the drug companies. When they find a drug that gets sidelined for whatever its original purpose was, but shows promise in an area where there are maybe 100 people affected world wide... they develop it. Cool idea and really the only effective way to do it. Clearly this would not work otherwise.)

blueangel · #4 02-22-2007, 01:25 AM

I wouldn't call it a "bias".. but healthy suspicion. I've done too many stories on corruption in big industry and too many stories on drugs gone wrong (ala Phen Phen and Vioxx) not to question this vaccine. It came out with too much fan-fare and too much political backing. The red flags in my mind went up right away.

Maybe the vaccine will end up being safe.. but maybe not. It's way too early to know for sure. If I had a daughter, I certainly would not rush out to have her vaccinated. I would take a more conservative approach... and wait a few years until we know more.

If it turns out to be this wonder drug.. fabulous! But remember, Merck knew about the cardiovascular problems with Vioxx long before it disclosed anything. There's too much money riding on this vaccine to make me feel comfortable.

The political wheeling and dealing is just starting to come to light. That alone makes me uneasy.

#5 02-26-2007, 10:16 PM

Hi everyone,

I think I'm going crazy. Did I read that Merk is doing a study on HPV and sorority women? I'm pretty sure I didn't make it up...any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Drolefille · #6 02-26-2007, 10:20 PM

Unfortunately any search I do with sorority and Merck comes up with the DZ issue (on news pages discussing both) or this thread

Hadn't heard. But college students are a common target for drug trials.. it's a good way to make money. My roommate has a smallpox vaccine for it, and possibly a herpes vaccine (not sure if she did that one). And since this is targeted at women, sororities would be a good contact point.

#7 02-27-2007, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Unfortunately any search I do with sorority and Merck comes up with the DZ issue (on news pages discussing both) or this thread

Hadn't heard. But college students are a common target for drug trials.. it's a good way to make money. My roommate has a smallpox vaccine for it, and possibly a herpes vaccine (not sure if she did that one). And since this is targeted at women, sororities would be a good contact point.

Thanks for doing the searches, Drolfille

Maybe I'll call Merk...nor NPC...they have a section for research proposals actually. I'm not sure if Merk was actually doing clinical trials with NPC women...I think it might have been more of a "what do you think about it and why" type of study. Don't quote me on that one though!! **Geek grad student about to come out...damnit it already has!**

I'm not sure if Merk is focusing on clinical trials right now for college women. (Actually, the vaccine can be used for men, too! Not to prevent ovarian cancer, obviously, but some of the strains of genetal warts...I just learned this last week!)

There is a smallpox vaccine, but it hasn't been given out to the general public since the 70s. I sincerely doubt they'd be giving it out to college students now. So 20 somethings, like me, would be at highest risk. Our parents, however, should still have some immunity to the virus.

As for herpes vaccine there is none, yet...or a cure, either.

I was talking about this very subject the other day. We were thinking...if people think that having the HPV vaccine will make their daughters become sexually active...would it be the same situation with an HIV vaccine? **To date there is no HIV vaccine** Just some food for though.

Back to being a geek. But if anyone finds something, please let me know

AlphaFrog · #8 02-27-2007, 09:45 AM

Alright, I figured out how you might have ended up with the idea that Merck was doing tests on NPC Women.

http://www.npcnow.org/newsroom/updates/enewsjune02.asp

NPC - National Pharmaceutical (not Panhellenic) Council (not Conference).

#9 02-27-2007, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

Alright, I figured out how you might have ended up with the idea that Merck was doing tests on NPC Women.

http://www.npcnow.org/newsroom/updates/enewsjune02.asp

NPC - National Pharmaceutical (not Panhellenic) Council (not Conference).

Thanks AlphaFrog

That is definately a possibility! I was pretty excited, because I'm making a list of some possible thesis ideas...secondary data analysis would exciting.

Drolefille · #10 02-27-2007, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErinKathleenNJ

Thanks for doing the searches, Drolfille

Maybe I'll call Merk...nor NPC...they have a section for research proposals actually. I'm not sure if Merk was actually doing clinical trials with NPC women...I think it might have been more of a "what do you think about it and why" type of study. Don't quote me on that one though!! **Geek grad student about to come out...damnit it already has!**

I'm not sure if Merk is focusing on clinical trials right now for college women. (Actually, the vaccine can be used for men, too! Not to prevent ovarian cancer, obviously, but some of the strains of genetal warts...I just learned this last week!)

There is a smallpox vaccine, but it hasn't been given out to the general public since the 70s. I sincerely doubt they'd be giving it out to college students now. So 20 somethings, like me, would be at highest risk. Our parents, however, should still have some immunity to the virus.

As for herpes vaccine there is none, yet...or a cure, either.

I was talking about this very subject the other day. We were thinking...if people think that having the HPV vaccine will make their daughters become sexually active...would it be the same situation with an HIV vaccine? **To date there is no HIV vaccine** Just some food for though.

Back to being a geek. But if anyone finds something, please let me know

Actually, St. Louis University has been testing a herpes vaccine. There are several in the pipelines. I just don't remember if my roommate got it or not

And I'm not one who thinks that a shot = permission to have sex

kddani · #11 02-22-2007, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drolefille

ZOMG 500 girls out of how many? Reported dizziness, mild fever, and nausea?

Those are incredibly minor "side effects" and not even necessarily related to the vaccine- one of my favorite phrases - "correlation does not imply causation".

Again, as I think the only person in this thread who has actually HAD the vaccine, I had absolutely no side effects from it besides a slightly sore arm in the injection spot- but that would happen no matter what was injected.

And I had on the same day as other treatment for something, so we don't even know if these "side effects" could have been related to other treatment.

Lady Pi Phi · #12 02-22-2007, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kddani

Those are incredibly minor "side effects" and not even necessarily related to the vaccine- one of my favorite phrases - "correlation does not imply causation".

Again, as I think the only person in this thread who has actually HAD the vaccine, I had absolutely no side effects from it besides a slightly sore arm in the injection spot- but that would happen no matter what was injected.

And I had on the same day as other treatment for something, so we don't even know if these "side effects" could have been related to other treatment.

Blueangel, I agree with kddani. Those are side effects of almost any drug. I'm a diabetic and sometimes I experience side effects from my insulin. Does that mean we should ban insulin?

I'm experiencing nausea, dizziness, and a mild fever right now, and I haven't had the vaccine.

blueangel · #13 02-22-2007, 12:14 PM

I think you're missing my point. My point is that this vaccine has only been out a short time. It's too soon to know what the side effects will be. I find the 3 cases of Guillain-Barre Syndrome quite disturbing... even one would cause me to be concerned.

The cardiac side effects of Vioxx didn't become known to the public until people had died. I think we need to take a "wait and see" with this vaccine.

UGAalum94 · #14 02-22-2007, 12:36 PM

Or at least a wait and see attitude before we mandate it?

Lobbying and advertising isn't a problem for me. Successful lobbying to remove individual choice before an item has even been introduced for public consideration? That's scary.

(Again, if it's something folks can pretty easily opt out of, it's not the end of the world. But it's the kind of nanny state crap I hate. If we have a vaccine that prevents cancer, we ought to get people to get the vaccine because they want to avoid cancer, not because they want to go to 7th grade.)

AlexMack · #15 02-22-2007, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueangel

I think you're missing my point. My point is that this vaccine has only been out a short time. It's too soon to know what the side effects will be. I find the 3 cases of Guillain-Barre Syndrome quite disturbing... even one would cause me to be concerned.

The cardiac side effects of Vioxx didn't become known to the public until people had died. I think we need to take a "wait and see" with this vaccine.

See, here's the thing...to wait and see, people still need to have the vaccination done. So it makes no difference either way. I just don't think it should be mandated. The last mandated vaccine I got (MMR) made me really sick and had me off school for two weeks. Yeah, I was the 1 in 100,000.
Also this isn't like the swine flu, the epidemic that never happened-people have HPV and cervical cancer now so it's a bit different. You're right to be cautious but also remember, with respect, that you're out of the recommended age range to receive it anyway.