VTMom

[amanda6035]

Originally Posted by PenguinTrax

that's nothing..check out the finances for the chapters at FSU:

http://greeklife.fsu.edu/PH/finances.html

I cant believe there is that much of a difference in the finances! Isn't it a better idea to have closely competitive prices? At my campus you cant say "Well, you pay more money but you get more stuff" bc it just doesnt work....Wouldnt it be sad for a girl to join one sorority over another JUST BECAUSE of the price? (and lets be honest, it happens...)

VTMom - make sure to have your daughter ask about FINING...many chapters that fine aren't up front and honest with their costs - if she misses an event, she might be forced to pay as a "punishment." It's sad, because I've known alot of new members who have quit their sorority, due to not being properly informed of how much money it was actually going to cost (and this is the sorority's fault for not being honest about it). I was Financial VP for two years, and the way I see it, the numbers they give you should be all inclusive, with the exceptions of extras that you have a choice to, or not to participate in, such as, if you want to buy a shirt from a mixer you attended. Sadly, many sororities do not share this same way of thinking.

[breukelen]

VTMom
As far as recommendations are concerned you may want to start talking about your daughter's intention to rush with your own friends and co-workers. You may know quite a few women who are sorority alumnae--if you bring it up to people they may offer to write a rec. for her.

[FSUZeta]

amanda, i see where you are coming from, and it certainly sounds like you have firsthand knowledge, having served as a vp finances, but i have to disagree with you on having vtmom's daughter ask about fining. if a pnm asked me that, i would be worried that she might be joining a sorority just to say she was in a sorority and she was looking for the sorority who would fine the least, or has other consequences for nonparticipation.

hopefully, when girls are going thru recruitment they are not already thinking about how they are going to get out of participating in sorority activities. as an advisor, i have heard sob stories from girls who "can't pay their dues" or how"can't afford to pay their fine", but who grab a starbucks everyday, and eat out at different restaurants several times a week where the average meal costs around $15. these girls are either just bad at managing their money, or their sorority obligations are not high on their priority list.

[33girl]

Once she has a bid - that's the time to ask about fines. Plus, being all inclusive or not and fining are 2 totally separate issues.

I personally don't care for the all inclusive thing - I would have been very upset if part of my dues paid for a very expensive formal that for one reason or the other I didn't get to attend. IMO, unless it's mandatory, your dues shouldn't pay for it - but I know for a lot of chapters that's not feasible.

[amanda6035]

Yeah, I get your point. It just really pisses me off, because...I was trying to avoid this, but I'm gonna say it anyway....we had to cut our dues DRASTICALLY in order to remain competitive with the "published dues" of other sororities on my campus. As a result, we have to be very very frugal about everything we do, and in some instances, we do take a chapter vote to say "hey, can everybody pitch in $10 for this event?" and it's okay. But then come to find out, there have been several girls, who depledge those other sororities bc they cant afford to pay the fines for whatever reason.

So my chapter has to scrimp and save in order to have fun events because we lowered costs to remain competitive with not-accurate published prices, and PNMs get screwed bc they dont know ther full financial obligations. And of course, my chapter cant say during formal recruitment "We dont fine - what you see on that financial poster on the wall is exactly what you're going to pay" because it will make us look like catty bitches. *grr*

[AChiOhSnap]

Originally Posted by amanda6035

And of course, my chapter cant say during formal recruitment "We dont fine - what you see on that financial poster on the wall is exactly what you're going to pay" because it will make us look like catty bitches. *grr*

You can't?

We were always totally upfront about our dues being all-inclusive. I don't think anyone ever held it against us or thought we were "catty" for saying that while AXO's dues might seem high as compared to some of the other sororities, we were all-inclusive and some of the other sororities' fees were "a la carte." The sororities that had lower dues were up-front with the fact that you pay for mixers, t-shirts, etc. as you went along. I dunno, it was never a problem.

[AlphaFrog]

I think they'd have to be EXTREMELY careful about the way they said it, and as we know, not everyone has that kind of tact in the heat of rush.

[amanda6035]

Yeah - it's just....one of those things. A camus as small as mine, it's hard enough to convince girls to come out to recruitment, the last thing you want to do is scare them away with finances....

Our president even suggested re-raising our dues - but there's no way we can feasibly do that and still give the appearance of being competitive. The PNMs on my campus look so closely at those kinds of details. I guess that's what happens when you're a school full of nerdy engineers

*tangent* Why is it that greek life gets such a bad rep for money? i mean, you have to pay dues to be in professional organizations and to play on the soccer team and crap like that - so why is money in greek life any different? The whole "I dont want to by my friends" syndrome....

Sorry VTMom, didnt mean to derail your topic.... Good luck to your daughter!

[AnchorAlumna]

The amount of fees depends on if there is a house involved, and how big that house is. At the University of Alabama, all new members eat all meals at their house, so my daughter's first semester bill 5 years ago came to around $2,200. That included pledging & initiation fees, parlor fee, an $80-a-semester fee for security guard that stayed at the house sunset to sunrise, meals and, of course, dues. It did not include the price of the badge or T shirts and photos for all the events. And it did not matter if you lived in an apartment across town, a dorm across campus or a room in the house - everybody pays for ALL meals.

[Drolefille]

We had fines for missing required events, and they weren't a way to supplement our dues. They were a deterrent for girls who thought "you know, it'd be more fun to go to this party tonight and stay out late and just be 'sick' for initiation tomorrow" or who thought that required meant "only required if I my boyfriend's not in town."

We certainly didn't fine girls JUST so that we could make some money. And extra community service hours were almost if not always an alternative to paying, as long as it was arranged appropriately.

And this is not to say the members receiving fines were "bad members" they were just college students. Sometimes it takes an incentive to get your priorities back in order. (There were of course acceptable excuses and a such, it wasn't just "You missed chapter OMG FINE!")


ETA: FINES are different from all inclusive dues. Our dues were all inclusive. We also fined. That's two different issues.

[susan314]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

We had fines for missing required events, and they weren't a way to supplement our dues. They were a deterrent for girls who thought "you know, it'd be more fun to go to this party tonight and stay out late and just be 'sick' for initiation tomorrow" or who thought that required meant "only required if I my boyfriend's not in town."

We certainly didn't fine girls JUST so that we could make some money. And extra community service hours were almost if not always an alternative to paying, as long as it was arranged appropriately.

And this is not to say the members receiving fines were "bad members" they were just college students. Sometimes it takes an incentive to get your priorities back in order. (There were of course acceptable excuses and a such, it wasn't just "You missed chapter OMG FINE!")


ETA: FINES are different from all inclusive dues. Our dues were all inclusive. We also fined. That's two different issues.

What she said - fines and dues are 2 completely different things. A member is not going to be assessed a fine if she's meeting all of her obligations as a member. I know that its AGD policy to allow a certain number of excuse notes, submitted in advance, per mandatory event. (I'd imagine that most other NPC groups have similar allowances.)

So, if a member truly has a legitimate conflict with a mandatory event (i.e. - "My grandparents 50th wedding anniversary party conflicts with the date of initiation, and if I don't come home for that party my parents would be livid and stop helping me pay my dues."), there are ways to appropriately notify the chapter and not be fined. Also, for weeknight events, if a member has a night class of course she'd never be fined for attending class! You get the idea. And, of course, if a legitimate emergency arose, an exception to the fine would generally be made also.

Fines are absolutely not a "way to make money" and are completely separate from dues. (Whether or not a chapter has "ala carte" dues or "all-inclusive" dues.) I would venture a guess that most chapters would prefer to never have to assess a fine and instead would rather have all members complying with whatever the attendance policy is!

I agree with FSUZeta that asking about fines during recruitment might not be the most appropriate thing to do - it might make you sound less committed, and that you're already trying to figure out how to "get out of doing stuff."

[axidalum]

First, my sympathies to VT students and alum. As a UVA grad, well, you're our sister school and I and my fellow Wahoos feel for you and are here for you.

VT Mom -- thank you for caring about your daughter's interest and trying to learn about Greek life. For those who hadn't experienced it, many reject it outright. My congrats on your committment to learn and understand.

The irony that I've witnessed is that so much money is spent for tuition and books (and housing and meals and student fees, etc.) -- no to make light of it, such a staggering number! -- yet people hesitate on the personal development investment that Greek life entails. Sororities focus on developing those parts of the person that the classroom doesn't -- handling yourself with others, esp. in difficult situations and/or meeting new people, program management, building a resume with real experience acknowledged in the workplace, ensuring that service to those less priviledged remains a priority, respect for others and learning how to make relationships work even when you may not especially like the other, etc. For me, the greatest lesson I learned from Greek life was to lead a balanced life, and how to approach that in my life outside. All the discussion of "fines" alludes to the fact that from a national perspective, these NPC groups are committed to helping people maximize their potential and learn to be well-rounded individuals who will contribute to society. Yes, there are requirements for meetings and socials, sports activities and service projects. Requirements to spend time with large and small groups of sisters, and (most importantly) to keep your grades solid. How many college students implicitly know how to achieve such a balance?

By having alumnae, on the national level and local, involved with the women, they can help coach the students to achieve this balance. The local alumnae are also paying attention to the invidual members, so they can identify and act re: problems that might exist. These problems, whether with grades, eating disorders, alcohol and/or drug issues, time management, deaths in the family, etc. -- these are not created by GLO membership, but rather present in them as well as outside of them. Sorority members benefit by having alums present and attentive and trained to be attuned to these issues and mature enough to help. They train the sisters to also be aware of how to recognize and help. For some of these issues, though, a dorm mate or even undergraduate sister may not feel comfortable "getting involved." These alums will.

And membership is for a lifetime, for all of these groups. There are networking and continuing education opportunities. And once the competitiveness that surfaces during recruitment and college days, the general respect for fellow greeks, during hiring processes and contract negotiations, well again, that investment during the college years is small compared to that tuition and room fee.

When I went through recruitment, I honest had no intention of joining, but thought the experience of meeting so many people, making small talk, etc. was important. The experience after joining made that initial benefit pale in comparison.

So some thoughts to consider. I wish your daughter every luck.

[PenguinTrax]

As others have stated, some of those dues may be all-inclusive others may not, and that is disclosed during recruitment. Also, a lot depends on how many the house can sleep vs. how many actually live in the house. Some houses at FSU sleep 20, others 60 or more. It makes a BIG difference in the expenses. Less in the house means each person has to pay more.

[Buttonz]

Originally Posted by amanda6035

I cant believe there is that much of a difference in the finances! Isn't it a better idea to have closely competitive prices? At my campus you cant say "Well, you pay more money but you get more stuff" bc it just doesnt work....Wouldnt it be sad for a girl to join one sorority over another JUST BECAUSE of the price? (and lets be honest, it happens...)

I had a NM tell me once that price was the #1 reason why she didn't go SDT. Her GLO charges for shirts, etc while we never did, and we always tried to explain that to the PNM.

[FSUZeta]

amanda,

i think that you could tell pnms that your dues cover x,y and z. as long as you all don't say anything about what the other sorority's dues cover or that the others don't cover x, y or z, then you should be alright.