Racial differences in Hazing.

[shadokat]

I guess I can't understand the differences of hazing, no matter what race the organization is. After reading some of the BGLO websites, here is something that I found.

The Delta Profile: Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc., was founded on January 13, 1913 at Howard University by 22 undergraduate women. These young women wanted to use their collective strength to promote academic excellence and to provide assistance to persons in need.

How is hazing promoting the message of founders? Hazing doesn't promote academic excellence, and I would consider pledges that are hazed to be the persons in need of some assistance.

I'm just curious as to how hazing promotes the outstanding purpose of such a great organization. I'm not trying to be mean...I plead ignorance and am trying to understand our cultural differences is all.

[Corbin Dallas]

Originally posted by lovelyivy84:
...If my chapter even THOUGHT about having alchohol at one of our functions our grad advisor would snatch those pearls so fast.....(she is no joke). That is not what we are about, and I take such offense to the thought that chapter monies for any chapter of any BGLO might be going towards alchohol instead of work in the comunity....it is disgusting to me.

Ok, so you'd lose your charter if the chapter bought alcohol with chapter funds? I don't think that is different than ANY GLO. However, what if you have a party that's BYOB? I'm pretty sure that's how most, if not all GLO's work, well, maybe not the NPC sororities, but the NIC fraternities anyway. As long as you are following the law, 21+ drinking, BYOB, etc. is it ok to have a party with alcohol?


------------------
Steve Corbin
Lambda Chi Alpha
Theta Kappa Chapter
Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech.

[shadokat]

We can have BYOB, just not in our houses. For instance, we can co-sponsor a BYOB with you, as long as it isn't in our house, or your house for that matter anymore

Originally posted by Corbin Dallas:

Ok, so you'd lose your charter if the chapter bought alcohol with chapter funds? I don't think that is different than ANY GLO. However, what if you have a party that's BYOB? I'm pretty sure that's how most, if not all GLO's work, well, maybe not the NPC sororities, but the NIC fraternities anyway. As long as you are following the law, 21+ drinking, BYOB, etc. is it ok to have a party with alcohol?

[mccoyred]

The difference is that we did not have to be *forced* to go dry. Alcohol is not part of the tradition of pledging or any other social aspect of HBGLOs, period. Now we do have 'mixes' at parties on occasion, like Kappa Punch, but I have NEVER seen a HBGLO have a keg party or things of that nature. In fact, there was a GLO fraternity on campus where if your feet did not stick to the floor of their house, that meant they didn't have enough kegs! *this was back in the day, late 80s* You would NEVER see a BGLO frat party treat their house like that.

Alcohol is another of the areas where GLOs and BGLOs have different traditions and protocols.

Originally posted by Corbin Dallas:
Ok, so you'd lose your charter if the chapter bought alcohol with chapter funds? I don't think that is different than ANY GLO. However, what if you have a party that's BYOB? I'm pretty sure that's how most, if not all GLO's work, well, maybe not the NPC sororities, but the NIC fraternities anyway. As long as you are following the law, 21+ drinking, BYOB, etc. is it ok to have a party with alcohol?

------------------
MCCOYRED
Mu Psi '86
BaltCo Alumnae

Dynamic...Salient...Temperate...Since 1913

[12dn94dst]

Originally posted by lovelyivy84:
I think (I HOPE) that the poster was referring however, to post-pledge and social activities.

I was referring to ANY party thrown by an HBGLO. I'm with y'all, if I EVER see a pledge at a party...well, that's another topic.

As my Sorors & I have stated, keg parties & the like are not our thing. There are 2 threads (at least)on GC in which someone is looking for party themes. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/...ML/000003.html and http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/...ML/000016.html There were a few that did not involve alcohol and most, if not all of the responses were from members of non-HBGLOs. The ideas sound fun but why include alcohol? Does alcohol make them "more" fun? As for the whole "I'm over 21 therefore I should be able to drink at my frat/sorority party" true, you should be able to, BUT we all know good and well that under-aged folks will be in attendance, and unless you're going to be carding folks at the door and handing out plastic bracelets to those enough to drink, it's your RESPONSIBILITY not to allow minors access to alcohol, unless your chapter has money like that to waste on insurance.

For shadokat and anyone else who is confused:hazing and pledging are 2 different things. The terms are NOT INTERCHANGEABLE. If it helps, looks at it this way: pledging is an EVENT, hazing is a THING that can happen while you are PLEDGING. Like I said in my first response, once we learn the difference between the two, we'll be on our way to solving the problem.

[This message has been edited by 12dn94dst (edited May 01, 2001).]

[shadokat]

mccoyred--

I don't know if you are speaking of fraternities or sororities or both, but when I pledged, we signed a form stating that we would not consume alcohol at ANY time during our new member program. Each new member does it in our chapter. No alcohol is at any new member event EVER, and plays no role in our new member process.

Secondly, my sorority is not forcing our chapters to go dry. We are passing policy stating that they are not allowed to co-sponsor functions with alcohol in fraternity housing. They can do so at any third party vendor with licensed bartenders. This is by no means forcing us to go dry.

I don't think any group's traditions are steeped in alcohol. I think that drinking in college is something that most students take part in. Whether it be a keg party or Kappa punch, it's all alcohol. I've been to a Kappa party or two, and there wasn't much difference between their parties and those at white GLOs. This could just be my school, I don't know. But most students, GLO, BGLO, HGLO, or GDI, they enjoyed the party scene.

Originally posted by mccoyred:
The difference is that we did not have to be *forced* to go dry. Alcohol is not part of the tradition of pledging or any other social aspect of HBGLOs, period. Now we do have 'mixes' at parties on occasion, like Kappa Punch, but I have NEVER seen a HBGLO have a keg party or things of that nature. In fact, there was a GLO fraternity on campus where if your feet did not stick to the floor of their house, that meant they didn't have enough kegs! *this was back in the day, late 80s* You would NEVER see a BGLO frat party treat their house like that.

Alcohol is another of the areas where GLOs and BGLOs have different traditions and protocols.

[lovelyivy84]

Maybe this is just another area where perceptions just differ. The only place I have ever seen alchohol at an HBGLO event is at the after-set (afterparty) (ok, and at an NPHC conference, but that was a grown folks thing, lol). People serve their red, or pink, or whatever color punches, but that's it. No unofficial BYOB's or anything. They are not a part of our events- how can you be on point when you are strolling if you're drunk???? lol. I know that our strolls are sometimes complicated, and as much as I could do them in my SLEEP, I would not take a chance and do them drunk- messing up would just not be an option!

It's just a mindset difference. Not for all HWGLO's but for many, alchohol is just part of the party scene, whether you bring your own or have it there. It's not really part of ours at all....

[mccoyred]

I don't know if you are speaking of fraternities or sororities or both, but when I pledged, we signed a form stating that we would not consume alcohol at ANY time during our new member program. Each new member does it in our chapter. No alcohol is at any new member event EVER, and plays no role in our new member process.

Maybe not yours but I have *seen* it happen. Like I said, this was back in the day.


Secondly, my sorority is not forcing our chapters to go dry. We are passing policy stating that they are not allowed to co-sponsor functions with alcohol in fraternity housing. They can do so at any third party vendor with licensed bartenders. This is by no means forcing us to go dry.


Maybe force is the wrong word. My point is that it was never an issue for us, PERIOD.


I don't think any group's traditions are steeped in alcohol. I think that drinking in college is something that most students take part in. Whether it be a keg party or Kappa punch, it's all alcohol. I've been to a Kappa party or two, and there wasn't much difference between their parties and those at white GLOs.


I have been to both and, to me, it is a HUGE difference.


This could just be my school, I don't know. But most students, GLO, BGLO, HGLO, or GDI, they enjoyed the party scene.


There were certain fraternities where you couldn't say their name witout saying something about alcohol in the same breath.

Now I gather that does not still happen, esp to that extent but the point is that IT WAS NEVER AN ISSUE FOR THE NPHC ORGS. As indicated before, just another difference in the culture!


------------------
MCCOYRED
Mu Psi '86
BaltCo Alumnae

Dynamic...Salient...Temperate...Since 1913

[This message has been edited by mccoyred (edited May 02, 2001).]

[12dn94dst]

Originally posted by shadokat:
I guess I can't understand the differences of hazing, no matter what race the organization is. After reading some of the BGLO websites, here is something that I found.

The Delta Profile: Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc., was founded on January 13, 1913 at Howard University by 22 undergraduate women. These young women wanted to use their collective strength to promote academic excellence and to provide assistance to persons in need.

How is hazing promoting the message of founders? Hazing doesn't promote academic excellence, and I would consider pledges that are hazed to be the persons in need of some assistance.

I'm just curious as to how hazing promotes the outstanding purpose of such a great organization. I'm not trying to be mean...I plead ignorance and am trying to understand our cultural differences is all.

an attempt to bring this topic back on course....

For shadokat and anyone else who is confused: hazing and pledging are 2 different things. The terms are NOT INTERCHANGEABLE. If it helps, looks at it this way: pledging is an EVENT, hazing is a THING that can happen while you are PLEDGING. Like I said in my first response, once we learn the difference between the two, we'll be on our way to solving the problem.

You're right, HAZING does NOTHING to promote what Delta or any any sorority or fraternity is about. No one here said they were PRO-HAZING. If anything, we're PRO-PLEDGING. That is: PRO-TIME MANAGEMENT, PRO-SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY, PRO-CIVIC RESPONSIBILITY, PRO-TEAMWORK, PRO-ACADEMIC RESPONSIBILITY, PRO-SISTERHOOD, PRO-BONDING, PRO-SELF AWARENESS, PRO-PERSONAL DEVELOPMENT and a heck of a lot of other positive life skills that are developed when one is online.

[12dn94dst]

Originally posted by 12dn94dst:
Getting back to the topic at hand, why not inform those rushing that if they do make it to be a new/associate member that it will be extra work? it's the truth, isn't it? why not give them an idea of what being a member is like? I'm not trying to be facetious (for once), I'd really like to know. Is it against the rules?

i still would like to know the answer to this one.

[AlphaChiGirl]

If I'm not mistaken--don't the NIC and NPC have the same guidelines for alcohol risk management? I know we are only allowed to co-sponsor events with groups that have the same alcohol policy.

I've noticed that there is a strong prejudice that the "white" fraternities and sororities REQUIRE drinking as part of their new member education. I had this "discussion" (if that's what you want to call it) with my cousin (who's in a NPHC sorority) about that...she INSISTED that I had been forced to drink as part of my new member education process...and that I didn't want to admit it, because "they ALL do it". I can safely say that I DID NOT DRINK AT ALL during new member education activities, not even a glass of wine at chapter dinners.

The NPHC and IFC parties I've attended are basically the same, but more is allowed with the IFC groups because they have their own housing. Still...the kegs flow just as freely. There are still the same drunken nuts.

[Babble354]

The pledge program that I went through was dry, even though I 'm a member of what would be thought of as a "white fraternity". I think that broad generalizations of how new members are incoperated into a greek orgainization are, for the most part unfair. I do think though that the particular campus culture where a greek organization is located plays an important role in the method that new members are educated. I could be wrong though...