Results of 2006 APO Convention.

[33girl]

And at some of those schools...GSS functions almost like an NPC sorority. I'm not going to get into that too far, but my point is that if that's the case no one is really thinking of GSS and APO "competing" for members. The girls that join GSS wouldn't even think about APO, and vice versa.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by 33girl

And at some of those schools...GSS functions almost like an NPC sorority. I'm not going to get into that too far, but my point is that if that's the case no one is really thinking of GSS and APO "competing" for members. The girls that join GSS wouldn't even think about APO, and vice versa.

Yeah, culture of the chapter and the school make quite a difference.
I would expect the effect would be less at the HBCUs and
but more at the public schools.

[Empress0105]

i think it's foolish to force co-ed-ness on any organization. How do you force girls to rush your chapter if for decades it's just been known that only males do A Phi Que at XYZ School. I think it should still be a matter of choice...and as long as those chapters do theri service and don't kill anybody, then it shouldn't matter....

perfect example....TBS and KKY are both co-ed...but MOST chapters aren't and aren't forced to make that choice...


and i also don't think that that whol e"convince your regional director" thing is going to work....how do you convince someone who doesn't understand or like the all male culture of your org, that even if you stand in a female dorm and beg chicks to pledge your stuff...they won't becaue it's known you are to be a gamma sig if ou wnna be in the 25/52 circle.....


this topic really pisses me off...so i'm going to my corner

[summer_gphib]

Our chapter had some boys in it. Our school also had a co-ed APO. :-)

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by Empress0105

i think it's foolish to force co-ed-ness on any organization. How do you force girls to rush your chapter if for decades it's just been known that only males do A Phi Que at XYZ School. I think it should still be a matter of choice...and as long as those chapters do theri service and don't kill anybody, then it shouldn't matter....

perfect example....TBS and KKY are both co-ed...but MOST chapters aren't and aren't forced to make that choice...


and i also don't think that that whol e"convince your regional director" thing is going to work....how do you convince someone who doesn't understand or like the all male culture of your org, that even if you stand in a female dorm and beg chicks to pledge your stuff...they won't becaue it's known you are to be a gamma sig if ou wnna be in the 25/52 circle.....


this topic really pisses me off...so i'm going to my corner

There's really too much in your post to go over word-for-word..... so let me just say please, allow APO to handle this one. I was at the convention when this decision was made and trust me, we got it.

[gamma_girl52]

Originally Posted by Empress0105

i think it's foolish to force co-ed-ness on any organization. How do you force girls to rush your chapter if for decades it's just been known that only males do A Phi Que at XYZ School. I think it should still be a matter of choice...and as long as those chapters do theri service and don't kill anybody, then it shouldn't matter....

perfect example....TBS and KKY are both co-ed...but MOST chapters aren't and aren't forced to make that choice...


and i also don't think that that whol e"convince your regional director" thing is going to work....how do you convince someone who doesn't understand or like the all male culture of your org, that even if you stand in a female dorm and beg chicks to pledge your stuff...they won't becaue it's known you are to be a gamma sig if ou wnna be in the 25/52 circle.....


this topic really pisses me off...so i'm going to my corner

Woo woo woo...LOL

I feel you soror. And I agree...to a point...but also we as a sorority don't want to be that "option" just because they are trying to be in "25/52" (and I have to put that in quotes, because it's not as deep as some people make it to be). What I'm saying is that I certainly DO NOT want females to pursue Gamma Sigma Sigma, because either a) they are trying to be a part of that 25/52 circle or b) because they are being "made" to join GSS because the APO chapter is trying to become all-male. I'm just gonna put it out there. It has happened before with certain colonies/chapters. And trust me, those are the colonies that are doomed to fail from the start. Gamma Sig is for those who believe in our cause and are going to do some REAL WORK and REAL SERVICE, for US. It is not for those who don't aspire to do any less.

Of course I have my own personal opinion on the decision Alpha Phi Omega made at their last Convention, because I have had the opportunity to speak candidly with those members that I know. I personally don't find it to be fair, but out of respect that is all I think I can say.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by Empress0105

i think it's foolish to force co-ed-ness on any organization. How do you force girls to rush your chapter if for decades it's just been known that only males do A Phi Que at XYZ School. I think it should still be a matter of choice...and as long as those chapters do theri service and don't kill anybody, then it shouldn't matter....

perfect example....TBS and KKY are both co-ed...but MOST chapters aren't and aren't forced to make that choice...


and i also don't think that that whol e"convince your regional director" thing is going to work....how do you convince someone who doesn't understand or like the all male culture of your org, that even if you stand in a female dorm and beg chicks to pledge your stuff...they won't becaue it's known you are to be a gamma sig if ou wnna be in the 25/52 circle.....


this topic really pisses me off...so i'm going to my corner

OK, couple of points.

For the purposes of these comments, I'm going to split the country with a line running west from Richmond, VA to Denver, CO*. The number of all-male chapters at co-ed schools North of that line in each region are one or two (Maine-Orono & Maine-Machias in Region I, Drexel in Region II, Duquesne in Region V, and Minnesota-Duluth in Region IX), so the Regional Director is going to deal with them much more one on one.

South of that line, the Regional Directors are *much* more aware of the cultures. Region IV has Auburn, Clemson, Samford, FL A&M, Tuskegee, & Fort Valley. Region VII has Lamar, Texas Southern, and Grambling. These regions have also had a number of other all-male chapters that were recently active (or underground).

As for "Showing the Regional Director", I think that there are a couple of levels here.
1) Changing descriptions in places like school catalogs, school websites and chapter websites to show that the chapter is for both men and women. For example: (http://www.dusers.drexel.edu/~aphio/who%20are%20we.htm) should be changed to show the correct purpose (college students rather than college men and women)
2) Actions during rush. Is the chapter welcoming to those, both men and women, who stop by the rush table...
3) Being willing to accept those who are interested of both genders.

It does get fuzzy. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if at an HBCU like Fort Valley, the chapter didn't end up with a female brother for five years, even if they were doing everything reasonable to implement the change. (And no, standing in the female dorms begging chicks to join doesn't count as reasonable)

Charters can only be revoked for membership issues by the National Convention, so it won't be a one person decision on the part of the Regional Director. At a vote of the National Convention both the chapter and the RD would speak.

YiLFS
Randolph Finder

*Note, going beyond Denver doesn't matter, there hasn't been an all-male chapter west of Denver since the early 1980s.

[gamma_girl52]

I think it would be safe to say that we Gamma Sigs probably need to stay in our lane with this one. Let's focus on what we need to do as a sorority and let the fraternity handle it's own business. K? K.

[Empress0105]

sorry, but i am not chaning my opinion on this...and i don't think expressing my opinion on what they are doing is me trying to medle in their affairs....end of the day i am not apo, so what i say amounts to a hill of beans...


but i am telling you....

it will be a cold day in hell before these hbcu chapters willingly allow a chic to come into their orgs....that's just being honest....they might even initiate her, but to actually include her in the "brother" aspect, like hangin out at the frat house and hopping at parties...you know, the social things that seperate a fraternity from circle k or your local food bank volunteers....i don't see it happening. and i say that for ALL chapters of co ed orgs at HBCU that are currently single gender but are indirectly being forced to be co-ed....i mean Tenn State is co-ed, but they also had to reactivate....same thing with apo here at howard....but FAMU??? TUSKEGEE??? man...i just don't see it...

i think it's great you want to support your national officers in their decision, but i think that in this world today, how man chics aren't in certain chapters should be the least of these white ladies issues...

we can agree to disagree...but i still think it's a retarded decision that whether we want to face it or not soror, WILL eventually affect us.

[Senusret I]

I'm asking you nicely as someone who has met you to please stay in your lane. I have supported Alpha Eta directly and indirectly over the years. Please do not continue to isolate the people who support you over this issue which has nothing to do with Gamma Sigma Sigma.

[gamma_girl52]

Originally Posted by Empress0105

sorry, but i am not chaning my opinion on this...and i don't think expressing my opinion on what they are doing is me trying to medle in their affairs....end of the day i am not apo, so what i say amounts to a hill of beans...


but i am telling you....

it will be a cold day in hell before these hbcu chapters willingly allow a chic to come into their orgs....that's just being honest....they might even initiate her, but to actually include her in the "brother" aspect, like hangin out at the frat house and hopping at parties...you know, the social things that seperate a fraternity from circle k or your local food bank volunteers....i don't see it happening. and i say that for ALL chapters of co ed orgs at HBCU that are currently single gender but are indirectly being forced to be co-ed....i mean Tenn State is co-ed, but they also had to reactivate....same thing with apo here at howard....but FAMU??? TUSKEGEE??? man...i just don't see it...

i think it's great you want to support your national officers in their decision, but i think that in this world today, how man chics aren't in certain chapters should be the least of these white ladies issues...

we can agree to disagree...but i still think it's a retarded decision that whether we want to face it or not soror, WILL eventually affect us.

Whatever proclaimations that Alpha Phi Omega passes down to their chapters, has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with Gamma Sigma Sigma. Period. The End. So I'm curious to know how it's DIRECTLY AFFECTING our sorority and how we operate. Maybe there is something that I don't know.

A few posts ago I said that I personally didn't think the decision is fair. I too have had conversations with APO members, both male AND female about it. However, GSS is always gonna come first to before something that another organization is doing. Soror, I really hope that you will come to Chicago this July and have the same fervor about what's going on with us, like you have with Alpha Phi Omega. Because you're right, we got our own issues to tackle.

It may sound harsh but I could care less about Alpha Phi Omega and their problems. I care about Gamma Sigma Sigma and OUR problems. Secondly, it's this thing called RESPECT that's seriously lacking in conversations like this one. Okay sure, we are "brothers and sisters" but this is THEIR business. I will say again what I have said before, if there's something going on in your org that you don't like, don't just sit there and b*tch. DO SOMETHING. You best believe those chapters that opposed it were there and voiced their opinion. And if they are really that adamant about it, they will have their behinds there at the NEXT one. If we truly respect our brothers, we trust them to take care of their own business and vice versa.

Soror I know you personally and I know you've got more to say--I have more to say. Hit me up on here if you want and we can talk more. Just know that nobody is saying that you can't have an opinion or express it. There's a time and place for everything.

[arvid1978]

Originally Posted by Empress0105

sit will be a cold day in hell before these hbcu chapters willingly allow a chic to come into their orgs....that's just being honest....they might even initiate her, but to actually include her in the "brother" aspect, like hangin out at the frat house and hopping at parties...you know, the social things that seperate a fraternity from circle k or your local food bank volunteers....i don't see it happening. and i say that for ALL chapters of co ed orgs at HBCU that are currently single gender but are indirectly being forced to be co-ed....i mean Tenn State is co-ed, but they also had to reactivate....same thing with apo here at howard....but FAMU??? TUSKEGEE??? man...i just don't see it...

Um, there is no "frat house" for any APO member to hang out at, that is prohibited by the National Bylaws. If they are hanging out at an APO Frat House, they've got a whole other set of issues to deal with.

Every chapter chartered before 1976 was chartered as an all-male chapter, and right now we have less than 20 holdouts. Lots of chapters have been reactivated at least once. Hell, we don't even have our Alpha chapter active, and it's been reactivated more than once. The fact that TN State is a re-charter doesn't mean anything.

I'm certain there was a time when people said APO wouldn't work at an HBCU because it was founded by whites and has Scouting at its core. Clearly, that isn't the case. Times are changing, and APO is choosing to lead the way rather than stick their heads in the sand. How many other GLO's have so many chapters on both HBCU campuses and non-HBCU campuses? I think that speaks volumes about our commitment to diversity and how it doesn't matter if you're black, white, yellow, red, purple, green, male, female or somewhere in between....you are all welcome to Be A Leader, Be A Friend and Be Of Service.

i think it's great you want to support your national officers in their decision, but i think that in this world today, how man chics aren't in certain chapters should be the least of these white ladies issues...

This was not a decision of the national officers, this was a decision upheld by the active (student) members of Alpha Phi Omega, as was the original decision to go co-ed in 1976. The national officers make recommendations, but it is ultimately up to the students.

I'm disgusted that you're playing the race card on this matter. Absolutely disgusted. Opinions along these lines only serve to further the racial divide and foster a "black people vs. everybody else" mentality. This has nothing to do with race, this is a matter of gender equity. (FWIW, I am a white male advisor to a predominately black female chapter on a co-ed public university campus, so I'm not exactly ignorant about these issues...) Do you think the predominately white all-male chapters are welcoming this with open arms and this is a plight to force co-ed APO at HBCU's? Our Delta chapter is all-male, and last time I checked my greek alphabet, Delta (Auburn) and Gamma Lambda (Clemson) are a hell of a lot older than Pi Zeta (Tuskegee) or Kappa Delta (FAMU) or Chi Nu (Grambling). APO chapters at HBCU's do not own the market on having to adapt following this re-affirmation of our membership policy.

we can agree to disagree...but i still think it's a retarded decision that whether we want to face it or not soror, WILL eventually affect us.

So it's a retarded decision for us to actually enforce our policies and bylaws? Because that is what the decision was about. Don't make it more than it needs to be.