MLB Hall of Fame

[macallan25]

You can't exclude a 3000 hit 500 home run guy from the Hall, i.e. Palmeiro. I don't care that he lied to Congress. Hell, every pitcher the guy faced the last 10 - 15 years could have been juiced. More pitchers have tested positive than position players. I wouldn't necessarily disagree with someone if they made an argument for Clemens juicing it up. He is uber competitive, obsessed with performance......and looked like a brick standing on the mound the last few years.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by macallan25

You can't exclude a 3000 hit 500 home run guy from the Hall, i.e. Palmeiro. I don't care that he lied to Congress. Hell, every pitcher the guy faced the last 10 - 15 years could have been juiced. More pitchers have tested positive than position players. I wouldn't necessarily disagree with someone if they made an argument for Clemens juicing it up. He is uber competitive, obsessed with performance......and looked like a brick standing on the mound the last few years.

This is the problem people don't understand - the power hitters are the ones who get accused, but it could just as likely be a pitcher, or even a speed guy/basestealer. Just because someone hits 40 home runs, that doesn't make him any more of a suspect than a guy who is throwing 100 mph.

Baseball writers seem to be looking for the easy scapegoat - one of the Baseball Prospectus guys hit in on the head, Jose Canseco said the words many baseball writers wanted to hear, and they're running with the possibilities and accusations.

[TonyB06]

This is the key point. With no testing in place by major league baseball, you have no proof of who did or did not do what. Personally, I think the public is tired of whole debate/issue. Sports media, as a part of its ever-increasing antagonism with sports figures (and vice versa) is driving this.

Do I think Barry Bonds juiced up? Probably, yes. Until it's proven, leave him alone. Same for the rest. Make your HOF judgements on what they did on the field. If you can PROVE illegalities, do so. Otherwise, STHU.

For me, as a compromise position, Bonds and McGuire are HOF's but not first ballot.

Ripken and Gwynn were locks for the HOF.

[KSigkid]

I forgot, Tim Raines (a 1st ballot HOF, easy, in my opinion), is on the ballot next year. I can't imagine the writers would be creative enough to vote him in on the first ballot.

As to Bonds, I would vote him in first ballot. I agree with you though, Tony, and I think the big problem is the HOF voters trying to elevate themselves to some sort of moral majority.

[Buttonz]

Cognrats to both Ripken and Gwyn...both two great plays that deserved it.

A class of Raines and Gossage would be nice next year. I do agree that both Shoeless Joe Jackson and Rose should be in the Hall, I hope one day they get in.