Politics 2008:The Caucuses and The Dem/Rep Conventions

[Little32]

^^There is a lot of information out there about all of the candidates; I would suggest you research this for yourself. One good way to do that is by perhaps going out to his events and hearing his stances on the issues that are important to you.




I answer this as though you are serious and not trying to take a backhand swipe at Obama supporters.

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by Little32

^^There is a lot of information out there about all of the candidates; I would suggest you research this for yourself. One good way to do that is by perhaps going out to his events and hearing his stances on the issues that are important to you.

I am not looking for information from the candidates themselves; I am looking for why he is getting the support he has been from those who are actively supporting him. I have heard nothing of substance from the candidate, which is why I am asking the supporters.

I answer this as though you are serious and not trying to take a backhand swipe at Obama supporters.

That is not my goal (taking a backhand swipe that is); again I have been getting asked repeatedly to attend this event for Obama and that event for Obama, especially from NPHC orgs. I want to hear from those who support him why I should support him. I am not going to say that I will ultimately support him. I just want to get an understanding of what issues he stands for that makes him so appealing from those who support him.

[Little32]

Then may I direct you here, for one example of why an Obama supporter is an Obama supporter based on the health care issue: http://thinkonthesethings.wordpress....y-to-railroad/

That's the best I will do for you, and I don't know if anyone else on GC is going to engage your questions for reasons that have been articulated ad nauseum.



Perhaps, knowing you, people just don't feel like making the effort to convince...

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Little32

Then may I direct you here, for one example of why an Obama supporter is an Obama supporter based just on one issue: http://thinkonthesethings.wordpress....y-to-railroad/

That's the best I will do for you, and I don't know if anyone else on GC is going to engage your questions for reasons that have been articulated ad nauseum.



Perhaps, knowing you, people just don't feel like making the effort to convince...

Yeah. The messenger makes a difference to some extent.

What matters even more is the reason behind why someone needs to ask supporters why they support a candidate. I always felt like people can choose to tell you who they support or not. They certainly don't have to tell you why they support a candidate. As long as they know this stuff, that's all that counts. Every person has to "research" a candidate on their own and make the decision of who they want to support (I do not support any particular candidate until I'm damn near headed to the election day polls). The threads that we've had on GC have included great info on almost every candidate and some people have chosen to share why they support a candidate (often in response to people questioning the candidate's president potential).

[Little32]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

What matters even more is the reason behind why someone needs to ask supporters why they support a candidate.

Exactly, a person does not need to justify her choices to anyone but herself, and I certain would not feel pressed to explain myself to someone who ultimately is not interested in what I have to say, but rather whether what I have to say meets his/her standards of significance.

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by Little32

Exactly, a person does not need to justify her choices to anyone but herself, and I certain would not feel pressed to explain myself to someone who ultimately is not interested in what I have to say, but rather whether what I have to say meets his/her standards of significance.

I dont know if you were speaking at me (as opposed to speaking to me) or just speaking generally in regards to the bolded, but assuming the former, I can assure you that I would be interested in what you would have to say. Whether I thought it met my standards of significance, I certainly wouldn't publicly declare because in part out of respect for your opinion, but more importantly because in the grand scheme of things, it isn't important.

Essentially I am trying to give Obama and his supporters the benefit of a doubt on his seriousness with the issues that have been plaguing our nation for quite some time and not try to write his stances off as empty rhetoric simply to appease the masses.

For the record, locally speaking I have heard NO campaign news from the GOP side, only the Democratic side, hence my reason for the above question. With Ohio's primary being next week (March 4), I'm just trying not to be as jaded in my thinking like I usually am (Surprise, surprise!!)

[AKA2D '91]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

[]I dont know if you were speaking at me (as opposed to speaking to me) or just speaking generally in regards to the bolded, but assuming the former, I can assure you that I would be interested in what you would have to say. Whether I thought it met my standards of significance, I certainly wouldn't publicly declare because in part out of respect for your opinion, but more importantly because in the grand scheme of things, it isn't important.[]

If she or anyone did, PLEASE take it to PM and discuss it there.

Everyone,

Please post on the topic and MOVE ON! Posts will be edited if necessary.

ETA: Keep your posts in Black in the AKA forum. If I need to see your organization's colors, I'll stop by your respective forum or see it in your signature. Thanks!

[unspokenone25]

RM: I suggest you read "Audacity of Hope" if you really want to gain a better perspective on who Obama is and why he has such a strong following. Good luck in your research.

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

[COLOR=darkred]I dont know if you were speaking at me (as opposed to speaking to me) or just speaking generally in regards to the bolded, but assuming the former, I can assure you that I would be interested in what you would have to say. Whether I thought it met my standards of significance, I certainly wouldn't publicly declare because in part out of respect for your opinion, but more importantly because in the grand scheme of things, it isn't important.[/

[COLOR=#8b0000]Essentially I am trying to give Obama and his supporters the benefit of a doubt on his seriousness with the issues that have been plaguing our nation for quite some time and not try to write his stances off as empty rhetoric simply to appease the masses. [/

[COLOR=#8b0000]For the record, locally speaking I have heard NO campaign news from the GOP side, only the Democratic side, hence my reason for the above question. With Ohio's primary being next week (March 4), I'm just trying not to be as jaded in my thinking like I usually am (Surprise, surprise!!)

[nittanyalum]

he specifically says the presidential campaign will NOT be planning the event in June in DC anymore, but he invites "others" to organize it (and he knows they're out there) and if his schedule allows, he'll try to attend. You must be listening selectively too.

And if you want to read his pandering for others to continue to drive money into his coffers for the continuation of his "revolution" as a serious bid for a presidential nomination, that's your delusion to grasp onto. He doesn't have to campaign for his congressional seat anymore, so why not keep his name out there through the efforts of others? Plus he's got that book coming out and he's starting up that PAC and Foundation. No such thing as bad publicity, right?

The man has only won 14 delegates. He may be turning down the lights on a dimmer, but the lights are going out.

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

he specifically says the presidential campaign will NOT be planning the event in June in DC anymore, but he invites "others" to organize it (and he knows they're out there) and if his schedule allows, he'll try to attend. You must be listening selectively too.

If I am listening selectively, explain how does the political campaign not planning the DC rally equate to Ron Paul dropping out? For the record, the DC rally was initiated by the grassroots a while back; it was never initiated by the campaign to begin with.

The man has only won 14 delegates. He may be turning down the lights on a dimmer, but the lights are going out.

Paul has won more delegates that that; and that does not include delegates from such caucus states as Nevada and Louisiana (which the final delegate numbers for the National Convention has not been determined as of yet). I was also told that Paul has potential for amassing a significant number of delegates in Alaska, Maine, and Washington (the state, not DC).

[nittanyalum]

Sorry, 21. http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/pri...orecard/#val=R

And the 3 states you mentioned carry a total of about 80ish delegates altogether. Your hopes are pinned on amassing a "significant number" of those?


ETA: http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...&postcount=438

[KAPital PHINUst]

All I will say is this: After seeing how the MSM had marginalized Dr. Paul over the past 6 months, I take any story coming from them with a grain of salt. I have heard a plethora of conflicting interpretations on the CNN story from spokesman Jesse Benton.

That said: Until Paul's campaign (preferable Dr. Paul himself) says concisely and in no ambiguous terms that he is quitting the race, Dr. Paul is still campaigning for president, even if only on a smaller scale. Period, the end.

That said, Paul's campaign needs to put out a statement to this effect one way or the other on their site and/or a YouTube vid from Dr. Paul like right now.

[DSTCHAOS]

*channeling DJ Khaled*

INDEPENDENTS!

WE THE BEST!

WHO?

WE!

WE THE BEST!

[mccoyred]

Lets look at the math. In the original vote in MI, Hillary won 55% and in FL, she won 50%; in MI, Obama is assigned the 'uncommitted' vote of 40% and won only 33% in FL. IF both states conduct new primaries, Hillary will only win 60% of the vote (she has only carried one state with more than 60% of the vote - her 'home' state of Arkansas; she carried her new 'home' state of NY with 57.4%, her next highest percentage) so she will gain, at most 10% of the popular vote. Now, lets assume that neither is Texas or Nevada (strange delegate allocation rules) and award strictly proportional delegates. AT MOST, this will gain Hillary at total of 29 delegates (21 or 10% of Floridas 210 delegates, 8 or 5% of Michigan's 156 delegates) and 200,00 popular votes (170,000 of Florida's 1.7million votes cast, 30,000 of Michigan's 600,000 votes cast). I have rounded all numbers UP in her favor. Given the current pledged delegate gap of 150 delegates and the popular vote gap of about 700,000 votes (which includes the FL and MI votes already cast), she is still CLEARLY far behind. If we add her 'gains', she is still behind by over 100 pledged delegates and half a million votes!



Sources: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...ote_count.html ; http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...te_count.html; http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/pri...s/scorecard/#D


Also see http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/2008...y-numbers.html for yourself. Worst case scenario, Obama STILL leads in pledged delegates.

[southernelle25]

Going strictly by the numbers, Obama should win the nomination, regardless of what happens in Michigan and Florida.

Its been said before, but Clinton’s “kitchen sink” strategy was too little too late and now her only hope for victory rests with the "super" delegates. However, if the nomination is “stolen”, many of Obama's supporters will simply stay home. A few, such as myself, will switch parties altogether. Those shady Clintons need to recognize, they can’t win a general election on the votes of old people and women alone. Obama is the rightful nominee, she should humbly request a vice presidential spot and find somewhere to sit down.