Politics 2008:The Caucuses and The Dem/Rep Conventions

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

Now Bily Graham has come out and stated that he will no longer mentor presidents. How convenient that this occurs when the first Black president is elected. I know that Billy Graham is old, but in the article it clearly stated that he would continue working with his ministry and that he is writing a book. Not only that, but Graham met with McCain, but when Obama wanted to meet with him he was "too ill." At any rate, Obama is probably better off without Billy Graham as his mentor.

Are you talking about this article? I tend to give him a bit of a pass given his age and health.

He was hospitalized last year for nearly two weeks after experiencing intestinal bleeding, and he has also had prostate cancer. Earlier this year, he had elective surgery to update a shunt that controls excess fluid on his brain. The shunt was first installed in 2000 and drains fluid from through a small tube, relieving excess pressure that can cause symptoms similar to Parkinson's disease.

"He could catch a cold and his life could come to an end," Franklin Graham said. "At his age, any little thing could be a serious event. We realize that."

However, he

would like to meet the president-elect and pray with him.

[Honeykiss1974]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

Now Bily Graham has come out and stated that he will no longer mentor presidents. How convenient that this occurs when the first Black president is elected. I know that Billy Graham is old, but in the article it clearly stated that he would continue working with his ministry and that he is writing a book. Not only that, but Graham met with McCain, but when Obama wanted to meet with him he was "too ill." At any rate, Obama is probably better off without Billy Graham as his mentor.

I don't think its a snub - Billy Graham is 90 afterall (and needs a walker) so I would think its moreso due to health. Although this is hardly publicized, Billy Graham believed in a message of Christ for all people and worked with Martin Luther King Jr. and others in the civil rights movement in softening the hearts of those that felt otherwise.

[nittanyalum]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

The Ronald Reagan seance comment was stupid. I cringed. Obama called Nancy Reagan to apologize. I think the conservatives have had enough of nitpicking so aside from some remarks about it they will let it slide.

Well, maybe all except my father -- he shot out an email about this to the family last night. I figured as a life-long conservative and straight Republican voter no matter the candidate or the issues over the years, he'd be disappointed in the election result. Turns out the man is flat-out PISSED. Woops.

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

Now Bily Graham has come out and stated that he will no longer mentor presidents. How convenient that this occurs when the first Black president is elected. I know that Billy Graham is old, but in the article it clearly stated that he would continue working with his ministry and that he is writing a book. Not only that, but Graham met with McCain, but when Obama wanted to meet with him he was "too ill." At any rate, Obama is probably better off without Billy Graham as his mentor.

Interestingly enough, I just heard Graham's 2 grandsons on NPR this morning, they've just released a book about Graham's ministry. You can listen to the interview here: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=96778336

During the interview, his grandsons describe him as a "50-year-old in a 90-year-old's body". He's apparently sharp as a tack, but his body is failing. This article gives insight into just how unwell he's been/is (and that he does very much want to meet and pray with Obama): http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h...RFsIAD94ALAGO0

Graham is known for breaking down racial barriers and refusing to preach to segregated crowds in the south starting back in the 50s: http://www.vop.com/previous_broadcas...jan/99034.html

He's also a registered Democrat, though he's ministered Republican Presidents as well as Democrats. I have no doubt that Billy Graham is celebrating the election of the nation's first African American President with most of the rest of the country and would have been on a plane to see him if it were physically possible for him.

[DrPhil]

Good grief, people. Is this an example of the unnecessary suspicion and faulty logic that we will be dealing with for the next 4 or more years just because there is a black president? Let's get over ourselves.

I like Billy Graham and this is most likely because of his age and health rather than not wanting to mentor a black president. Billy Graham has been loved and respected by black people (and vice versa) for decades. In fact, there is still material on Billy Graham's take on racism and prejudice floating around if people want to read it.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Good grief, people.

I believe you mean "Good grief, person."

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

I believe you mean "Good grief, person."

I mean "people."

Her sentiment is shared by others.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I mean "people."

Her sentiment is shared by others.

Ah, so you weren't referring to any of the other posts. I see.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

Ah, so you weren't referring to any of the other posts. I see.

It was obvious that you didn't share her sentiment.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Good grief, people. Is this an example of the unnecessary suspicion and faulty logic that we will be dealing with for the next 4 or more years just because there is a black president? Let's get over ourselves.

Actually you need to get over yourself. It's not faulty logic. Point blank there will be things that happen simply because Obama is black. Not everything negative that happens will be because he's black, and intelligent people know that.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

Not everything negative that happens will be because he's black, and intelligent people know that.

Then the point has been made.

Thanks for coming back after-the-fact and admitting this.

[SummerChild]

DrPhil,

This is definitely a case of suspicion but, so what?
If you don't like it, get out the thread. Just b/c you like Billy Graham, and...the significance of that is what? Racism is pervasive throughout America. AAs didn't make it that way. As you know, this country was founded on racism. I don't know what your experience is like on a day to day basis but, unless you live every day as someone who is discriminated against, you may not see things the way that an AA does. We experience racism on so many different levels, from job evaluations, to being able to get the job in the first place. President-Elect Obama's educational background was two to three times that of John McCain and the mental lightweight, Sarah Palin. Yet, they were virtually tied in the polls for many weeks, very late into the election period. This country is suffering from the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression yet, again, they were tied in the polls for many weeks, very late into the election period. There are STILL people saying that they, "just don't like that man." They just cannot put their finger on it, his economic policies benefit THEM - yet, they just don't like him. Yes, racism is pervasive in this country. We will continue to talk about it if we think it's going on. Just like you would like for posters in this thread to get over themselves, I would challenge America to get over itself. There have been 43 white men - in a row - who have held the highest office in this land. Yet, now that there is JUST ONE who is not of that description, folk are wearing black to work and stating that they are in mourning, there have been uprisings in schools by white students in Georgia, it is pathetic. So, this is why there is suspicion. Every instance of something that cannot be proved starts with suspicion...whether it is race-based or not. So what's wrong with it? Especially given the history of this country, I don't think that it's ridiculous.


(And this post applies no matter your race - even if you are AA DrPhil)


ETA: Now please get into the other thread centering on POSITIVITY and what President-Elect Obama should do first after his inauguration, since you are so concerned with Billy Graham.

SC

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Good grief, people. Is this an example of the unnecessary suspicion and faulty logic that we will be dealing with for the next 4 or more years just because there is a black president? Let's get over ourselves.

I like Billy Graham and this is most likely because of his age and health rather than not wanting to mentor a black president. Billy Graham has been loved and respected by black people (and vice versa) for decades. In fact, there is still material on Billy Graham's take on racism and prejudice floating around if people want to read it.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by SummerChild

This is definitely a case of suspicion but, so what?

So, in different ways, preciousjeni, HoneyKiss, and I believe the suspicion is unfounded. Agree or disagree, it's all just speculation that shouldn't be taken seriously.

But this isn't just about Billy Graham which is why I want us to "get over ourselves" and think "good grief, people" a lot of times when I hear (usually, black) people talk about the Obama presidency.

If an Obama presidency is going to spark this type of unfounded paranoia and unfounded speculation then this is going to be a tiring presidency. There's nothing POSITIVE about conspiracy theorizing if POSITIVITY is what people are going for. There's a difference in tone when addressing the realities or possibilities (which is what discussions of race and racism are really about) versus being suspicious or expecting the worst. Unfounded paranoia and unfounded suspicion of intents and motives (i.e. Billy Graham's) is silly whether it's coming from disappointed McCain supporters or Obama supporters. Period.

Obama isn't going to be told "yes" everytime a decision needs to be made during this presidency. If that's going to be interpreted in a racially charged manner more often than not, even in the absence of some type of evidence, then we have a long and bumpy road ahead of us.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

So, in different ways, preciousjeni, HoneyKiss, and I believe the suspicion is unfounded. Agree or disagree, it's all just speculation that shouldn't be taken seriously.

But this isn't just about Billy Graham which is why I want us to "get over ourselves" and think "good grief, people" a lot of times when I hear (usually, black) people talk about the Obama presidency.

If an Obama presidency is going to spark this type of unfounded paranoia and unfounded speculation then this is going to be a tiring presidency. There's nothing POSITIVE about conspiracy theorizing if POSITIVITY is what people are going for. There's a difference in tone when addressing the realities or possibilities (which is what discussions of race and racism are really about) versus being suspicious or expecting the worst. Unfounded paranoia and unfounded suspicion of intents and motives (i.e. Billy Graham's) is silly whether it's coming from disappointed McCain supporters or Obama supporters. Period.

Obama isn't going to be told "yes" everytime a decision needs to be made during this presidency. If that's going to be interpreted in a racially charged manner more often than not, even in the absence of some type of evidence, then we have a long and bumpy road ahead of us.

You seem to think that any accusations arise out of unfounded paranoia and suspicion. What exactly would it take for you to believe that something is happening because of Obama's race? You probably don't even think those white supremacists were planning to kill Obama because of his race. Of course they just wanted to kill him because they don't like his economic policies.

I don't think anyone on this board has stated that Obama should receive a "yes" on every decision. You are taking this entirely too far. You sound like one of those individuals who likes to sweep racism under the rug and pretend it doesn't exists...even when it's staring you in the face. Or maybe you just don't recognize racism unless it's blatant. You also sound like one of those individuals who will now challenge any accusations of racism by pointing out that we now have a black president and so racism couldn't POSSIBLY exist.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

You seem to think that any accusations arise out of unfounded paranoia and suspicion...You sound like one of those individuals who likes to sweep racism under the rug and pretend it doesn't exists...even when it's staring you in the face. Or maybe you just don't recognize racism unless it's blatant. You also sound like one of those individuals who will now challenge any accusations of racism by pointing out that we now have a black president and so racism couldn't POSSIBLY exist.

You described me perfectly. So much for "unfounded suspicion and unfounded paranoia."

From skimming your responses, I don't think we really disagree on the larger point. You already said that jumping to a racialized conclusion is something that intelligent people won't do for everything. When you choose to come to a racialized conclusion is up to you but, what can be interpreted as, conjecture will receive a variety of responses.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

You seem to think that any accusations arise out of unfounded paranoia and suspicion.

Where did you get that from?