Fraternity members indicted in student death

[tallgreekalum]

I didn't realize that locals were kicking around Austin. Are there a lot of them?

Originally Posted by EE-BO

Were they even registered with the University?

AGDLynn, if you had not posted I would have gone on assuming this was just some underground local.

Texas has quite a few underground groups that are GLOs in lettered name only. Sucks when they get into trouble (which they do- frequently) because the media is going to treat the story as though they were a real fraternity.

[Elephant Walk]

It's not a local.

[EE-BO]

Originally Posted by tallgreekalum

I didn't realize that locals were kicking around Austin. Are there a lot of them?

As Elephant Walk just posted- this particular house was not a local just to confirm, but yes there are many underground and local houses here.

How many is difficult to say. For various reasons I have been keeping close watch on the real estate situation in West Campus lately and there are a lot of small homes owned by Greek Letter Organizations that I am not familiar with. And not all of them have letters advertised on the front door.

But whether these groups are chapters of national GLOs or not, the fact remains that they do not tend to be registered with the University. I know this because I have last semester's official Greek House map and IFC grade reports sitting on my desk right now.

For various and obvious reasons, there has been a rise in recent years of new GLOs which tend to cater to specific racial groups and have a national presence.

However, the newness of these groups and the approach they have taken with regards to operating in a semi-underground manner gives them something in common with local and underground GLOs- specifically that they do not have the history, alumni presence or formal responsibility to colleges and strong national offices that can set the proper tone for recruitment and risk management.

My research shows that this is where the real risk lies. Different chapters in different places have different boundaries as to what is acceptable or not acceptable, and we are never going to agree on that.

But it is my opinion that chapters without alumni presence and guidance (courtesy of advisors or having lots of legacies in the chapter) and that chapters who are not selective in their recruiting are the ones that have the most problems. And if you really think about it and drop the north/south and other prejudices- this makes perfect sense in ways that would take 20 pages to fully discuss and explain (though I can do it if anyone wants!)

To get back to my earlier comment, my frustration is that when these kinds of organizations have incidents- the media does not report that the chapters involved are underground, local, not registered with the University or are just a bunch of 10 random guys who decided to rent a house together and pick out 2 or 3 letters to name themselves.

All they see is Greek letters, and then a media story is born.

Just read the first 2 pages of this particular forum and consider each incident. Ask yourself if these stories would have made the news if the student(s) involved were not greek. Look at how many of the reported incidents happened away from the Greek house.

We of 100+ year history greek organizations who are formally registered with our colleges are being judged by isolated incidents that happen with students who have nothing in common with us other than they decided to call themselves something using greek letters.

That sucks.

But I could care less about what the general public thinks. What pisses me off is that so many of our own- even from within our own brotherhood at times- are so willing to pass judgement, on this forum at that, and not stop and think about what is really going on.

[tallgreekalum]

So are these organizations registered as student groups at all, or are they just not IFC/Panhel/Pan-Hel? Is there some kind of Multi-cultural Greek Council @UT? This is the route many campi are going. The cultural/ethnic fraternities becoming residential is a fairly new phenomenon at most schools. I think that they are still following more of Pan-Hel type route rather than IFC/Panhel one. I know when I was last in Austin(we had an affiliate there for 10 years) there were one or two honor/professional fraternities with houses, as well as two non-GLO groups (I know Tejas is still there). Of course it is only the last ten years or so that the University has had much of a relationship with the IFC.

[EE-BO]

Tejas House is still there I think- but they have never tried to associate themselves with Greek Life. I knew one of the guys from one of my classes and he told me that it was basically a house where friends of current residents were invited to move in as guys graduated. No ritual or pledge period to speak of. A nice historic house too.

Beta Kappa (business fraternity- co-ed) used to have the house next to ADPi, but that changed hands a couple of times and is currently in Acacia's hands. I am not aware of BK having a property at present.

As for your question about other councils, I just checked and at the bottom of the Greek Life page on the UT website there are other councils listed besides the IFC (national fraternities and the list I was looking at last night) and UPC (representing the 14 national NPC-affiliated sororities). They are as follows- with portions of their mission statements in quotes to indicate who they represent,

NPHC- fraternities and sororities

"The National Pan-Hellenic Council at The University of Texas at Austin is the governing body for the nine historically African American Greek organizations. Seven of these organizations are currently affiliated with Greek Life and Education."

TAPC- Texas Asian Pan-Hellenic Council

"The Texas Asian Pan-Hellenic Council is the governing body for three Asian-interest organizations at The University of Texas at Austin." [Note- later on in their mission statement, it is indicated these are all sororities.]

UGC- United Greek Council

"The United Greek Council was created by the predominantly Latino/a based fraternal organizations at The University of Texas at Austin in the spring 2000 semester."

I must confess I was not completely aware of the extent of this- so that is new information for me.

However, I also just now looked over the list of all registered Greek organizations for all of these councils plus affiliates without council representation- and I can see off the top of my head that there are 3 GLOs I am aware of that are not registered.

That includes the organization being discussed here. I checked the discipline records online as well to ensure they are not listed because they were kicked off when this incident was first reported, but there is no record of any such action.

So it would appear this GLO was never registered with the University in any capacity. And I would note as well that none of the councils I mentioned above cover Asian-American fraternities of which there are reputedly many (2 of which I know about.)

[tallgreekalum]

Originally Posted by EE-BO

Tejas House is still there I think- but they have never tried to associate themselves with Greek Life. I knew one of the guys from one of my classes and he told me that it was basically a house where friends of current residents were invited to move in as guys graduated. No ritual or pledge period to speak of. A nice historic house too.

Beta Kappa (business fraternity- co-ed) used to have the house next to ADPi, but that changed hands a couple of times and is currently in Acacia's hands. I am not aware of BK having a property at present.

As for your question about other councils, I just checked and at the bottom of the Greek Life page on the UT website there are other councils listed besides the IFC (national fraternities and the list I was looking at last night) and UPC (representing the 14 national NPC-affiliated sororities). They are as follows- with portions of their mission statements in quotes to indicate who they represent,

NPHC- fraternities and sororities

"The National Pan-Hellenic Council at The University of Texas at Austin is the governing body for the nine historically African American Greek organizations. Seven of these organizations are currently affiliated with Greek Life and Education."

TAPC- Texas Asian Pan-Hellenic Council

"The Texas Asian Pan-Hellenic Council is the governing body for three Asian-interest organizations at The University of Texas at Austin." [Note- later on in their mission statement, it is indicated these are all sororities.]

UGC- United Greek Council

"The United Greek Council was created by the predominantly Latino/a based fraternal organizations at The University of Texas at Austin in the spring 2000 semester."

I must confess I was not completely aware of the extent of this- so that is new information for me.

However, I also just now looked over the list of all registered Greek organizations for all of these councils plus affiliates without council representation- and I can see off the top of my head that there are 3 GLOs I am aware of that are not registered.

That includes the organization being discussed here. I checked the discipline records online as well to ensure they are not listed because they were kicked off when this incident was first reported, but there is no record of any such action.

So it would appear this GLO was never registered with the University in any capacity. And I would note as well that none of the councils I mentioned above cover Asian-American fraternities of which there are reputedly many (2 of which I know about.)

Thanks. I have a pretty good list of national fraternities. If you tell me the names of the ones not registered, I could tell you if they are on it.

[jaynu]

Originally Posted by EE-BO

We of 100+ year history greek organizations who are formally registered with our colleges are being judged by isolated incidents that happen with students who have nothing in common with us other than they decided to call themselves something using greek letters.

That sucks.

And those of "us" who have only been around for decades at most face the same problems. New students judge us everyday on the misconceptions created by these older, more "historic," organizations. ONE isolated incident happened with an Asian GLO that shouldn't reflect anything or become a generalization for other organizations around the country.

Isolated incidents... This past year I've heard of everything from a new member falling off his balcony to a pledge being locked in a casket. These did not occur within Asian organizations, but rather those with 100+ years of history. You speak of this "we" and "you" division like my organization would be any different than your's in purpose. I keep wondering what older, more experienced organizations think about newer organizations because these type of divisional comments.

I'm proud to be in my organization (Yes, an Asian one). I without a doubt believe we have more in common than just 10 random guys "calling [ourselves] something using Greek letters." We serve our community, set up Philanthropy events, and furthermore, turn young men into leaders. There's nothing to talk down to about that. If not for this ONE incident, I'm sure all of the current Asian GLOs would have been in a council within the next few years. I'm sure that we'll be on one before our first decade on campus is over. In the meantime, all we've been doing was researching on the different councils to find which one will suit us best. Coming from a much smaller, and newer organization, the idea of being "recognized" is much different compared to that idea for century-old organizations.

(Sidenote: I have friends and acquaintances in all GLOs. The point I was trying to make is that ethnic groups aren't any different in tradition and culture, so much as to say I'm Vietnamese, he's African American, and she's White.)

[jaynu]

Jon, I was referring to someone else's comment about an active being stripped of membership for ratting something out.

What does your comment imply?

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by jaynu

Jon, I was referring to someone else's comment about an active being stripped of membership for ratting something out.

What does your comment imply?

Sorry, I may have mis-read or mis-understood your comment.

All my posting was about was a new update to others already in thread.

[jaynu]

Oh that's cool =)

[EE-BO]

Jaynu,

There is a BIG difference between kids falling off balconies or dying of overdoses and the forced drinking to death in this case.

The former are unfortunate tragedies that derive from behavior that is common for many college students- Greek and non-Greek.

The incident in this thread was deliberate and incredibly stupid, and it is one of many over the years that has happened with an unregistered GLO at Texas. These problems are not the result of the organizations being of a particular race. They are problems of organizations that exist without proper structure or guidance.

That sure seems evident in their behavior. I can imagine a non-Greek student getting drunk and driving, or falling off a roof while intoxicated. Overdoses happen all the time.

How often does ANYONE force-feed someone booze until they die? It takes the pledge-active relationship of a GLO to make that possible, but it takes a pretty messed up group of people to actually do it. The continued parties after the incident (the article Jon posted which I read in Houston when it came out), certainly do not tell the tale of an organization that recruits men on solid principles.

Guidance and structure can be lacking in any chapter, but by their very nature unregistered GLOs are operating in a far less safe manner than any GLO which is responsible to a strong national office and a university.

I have no problem with new GLOs- why should I? The more of us there are serving an increasingly diverse student population, the better off the Greek community is as a whole.

But when organizations put out a public appearance of being Greek groups for university students (ie they have Greek letter names) but they do not even bother to associate themselves in name and responsibility the same as other GLOs, they are merely trying to rip off our prestige and then damage us all when something goes wrong.

NPHC organizations in many cities exist just fine outside the scope of university representation. They also have their own methods of recruiting and membership that set them apart. They are not trying to have the benefit of being associated with a college and at the same time avoid the responsibility of other student organizations.

And spare me the BS about representation on councils. Texas has a council for Asian-specific GLOs- but only sororities are members of that council.

If, as you imply, the failure of Asian male GLOs to be officially registered with the University or a council is racially motivated, how come the Asian GLO council (which is not specifically stated to be reserved only for sororities) does not have any of the many Asian male GLOs?

For that matter, considering how many different Texas councils there are for registered GLOs of a wide range of racial groups- how is it possible that you are being kept away from doing the same? Is there a conspiracy against Asian fraternity members?

The reason that and so many groups are underground is obvious by their behavior in this case- specifically what they did and then what they did after the fact.

The racial connection is purely coincidental. GLOs in this country have traditionally been home to white students- and with membership on a slight decline overall, there is little need for more predominantly white GLOs.

And so it is natural that growth in the number of GLO organizations will tend to be for groups that are conceived by and largely serve members of minority groups- who are also attending college in greater numbers.

So nice try, but this is not about race. This is about groups that lead a marginal existence, try to appear to be the same as us, and make us all suffer when they do something stupid that gets heavy publicity- which is far more often than it is for us.

Newspaper readers are discerning. Are you going to tell me they don't see the difference between a young man falling and dying while at home versus a pledge being force fed booze until he died?

Incidentally, not all the traditional long-lived GLOs are white. There are some NPHC organizations older than some of the larger traditionally white organizations.

Point being, "We" and "Us" was not the racially discriminatory type comment you would like to associate with my post.

[L.O.C.K.]

Jaynu, the reasons LPhiE was not recognized at Texas is most likely because of their repeated violations of school policy. I know for a fact of LPhiE not being recognized at at least 15 university across the country, almost 33% of their chapters! That is insane. Moreover, LPhiE is a member of the NIC, and thus should have some sense of the responsibility involved when you are part of a National organization.

The bottom line is LPhiE Zeta Chapter dropped the ball big time. They continue to party after they KILLED someone. How is that responsible? Moreover, why isn't the National Office (or the front they say is their National Office) officially derecognizing them and declaring them no longer brothers?

LPhiE is a mess right now. 4 Deaths in 3 years is not good, especially when you only have 46-47 chapters.

Moreover, to back up EE-Bo, universities have created Multicultural Greek Councils and the like because they don't know what to do with Latino and Asian Greeks. To think that LPhiE was blacklisted when the TAPC was only made up of sororities is absurd.

Bottom line: LPhiE needs to get its act together quick. It faces ENORMOUS dues now do the the lawsuits and their attempt to try and get National Insurance (which last time I heard they don't have). Moreover, Greek Advisors are NOT stupid. They communicate between schools. I garauntee you every school with LPhiE is keeping a VERY careful eye on them.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by jaynu

And those of "us" who have only been around for decades at most face the same problems. New students judge us everyday on the misconceptions created by these older, more "historic," organizations. ONE isolated incident happened with an Asian GLO that shouldn't reflect anything or become a generalization for other organizations around the country.

Isolated incidents... This past year I've heard of everything from a new member falling off his balcony to a pledge being locked in a casket. These did not occur within Asian organizations, but rather those with 100+ years of history. You speak of this "we" and "you" division like my organization would be any different than your's in purpose. I keep wondering what older, more experienced organizations think about newer organizations because these type of divisional comments.

I'm proud to be in my organization (Yes, an Asian one). I without a doubt believe we have more in common than just 10 random guys "calling [ourselves] something using Greek letters." We serve our community, set up Philanthropy events, and furthermore, turn young men into leaders. There's nothing to talk down to about that. If not for this ONE incident, I'm sure all of the current Asian GLOs would have been in a council within the next few years. I'm sure that we'll be on one before our first decade on campus is over. In the meantime, all we've been doing was researching on the different councils to find which one will suit us best. Coming from a much smaller, and newer organization, the idea of being "recognized" is much different compared to that idea for century-old organizations.

(Sidenote: I have friends and acquaintances in all GLOs. The point I was trying to make is that ethnic groups aren't any different in tradition and culture, so much as to say I'm Vietnamese, he's African American, and she's White.)

I agree with his "divisional comments" and wish to add that "the new member" who you refer to was in my fraternity (SAE) at Texas and had nothing to do with any kind of RM issue. He fell off of his balcony at the Towers. He wasn't forced to drink a gallon of liquor.