More Black students joining Latino Greek organizations

[cutie_cat_4ever]

Originally Posted by starang21

well i was more taken a back by your statement that you don't learn much about asian culture by hanging with asian groups. as someone who was active in several different asian cultural organizations, i know for a fact that we threw food festivals and cultural festivals during the year. we also roadtripped to other schools for cultural conferences in our region. trust, i learn a whole lot during those times.

Well, comparing to a person who has lived in asia for half of my life, things we learned there of course would be more cultural based then what you experience here. But again, because I was brought up there, I see things differently.

[Taualumna]

Originally Posted by cutie_cat_4ever

Well, comparing to a person who has lived in asia for half of my life, things we learned there of course would be more cultural based then what you experience here. But again, because I was brought up there, I see things differently.

I agree with cutie_cat. Just because one only has Chinese friends, listens to Cantopop, speaks Cantonese and drinks bubble tea doesn't mean that one knows much about (traditional) Chinese culture.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by Taualumna

I agree with cutie_cat. Just because one only has Chinese friends, listens to Cantopop, speaks Cantonese and drinks bubble tea doesn't mean that one knows much about (traditional) Chinese culture.

of course you would.

much of what is learned at this conferences and festivals is not only "traditional" but also very much fused with what makes asian americans just that....americans.

[DSTCHAOS]

Bubble tea makes the world go 'round.

Especially mango bubble tea.

As long as the hippie coffee shop doesn't put those gawdawful tapioca bubbles in them.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Taualumna

I agree with cutie_cat. Just because one only has Chinese friends, listens to Cantopop, speaks Cantonese and drinks bubble tea doesn't mean that one knows much about (traditional) Chinese culture.

There are quite a few Asian groups so whatever cultural identification means to that group while they are in America is what it means, period. Many of these individuals also participate in traditional celebrations and holidays, as well as do their best to learn history and culture. But every group begins to separate itself from aspects of traditionalism and identifiability to an extent.

So I don't know what the culture-o-meter would be as far as you are concerned but the point remains the same.

[PhDiva]

As far as not learning about Asian culture from fellow Asians, your point is accurate only if the group as a whole is assimilating and are therefore less identifiable, culturally. However in many areas there are pockets of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd generationers who still mingle in exclusive ethnic settings, eat ethnic foods all day everyday and still closely identify with the language and culture. Many of these group members interact and identify with American culture for work and school commitments only.

Good point. Many Asians and Asian Americans self-select to either fully assimilate into American society or maintain linkages to their ethnic heritage. I'm Filipina on my mom's side and several members of the family still speak Tagalog (and Cebuano), eat traditional Filipino foods, participate in Filipino festivals like Simbang Gabi and incorporate Filipino traditions in our weddings and funeral celebrations. The degree to which an Asian is assimilated into American (or white) society has to do with the individual person; their isn't necessarily a collective Asian ethos to try to assimilate and lose touch with their heritage and culture. It is not surprising to me that many Asians would seek out Asian based organizations esp. if they wish to retain their culture.

Language, religion and culture play a significant role in how people develop relationships and the same holds true for how they pick an organization to join. Yes, there are some African Americans joining Latino frats and sororities but I would argue that is primarily based on regional differences. Blacks and Latinos live and work in close proximity to one another on the East Coast and in Chicago but the same doesn't hold true on the West Coast.

Say, if I grew up in Spanish Harlem and wanted to join a sorority and found things in common with a Latina sorority made up of primarily Puerto Ricans, I would argue that this is more about someone feeling more in common based on familiarity of the culture than BGLOs on the whole making folks feel uncomfortable. Yeah, it's certainly possible that the guy in the article was turned off by an Omega demand to bring beer and chicken but to make it seem like Blacks are headed to Latino/s orgs en masse because these incidents are so common is nonsense. The more likely conclusion to draw is that some Black folks feel comfortable with Latino/as and people have more choice in their selection of a frat or sorority to choose from.

I don't know but I was a bit uncomfortable with the tone of the article...Like the opening example was trying to lay blame from this increase of Blacks joining Latino orgs at the feet of the D9 instead of the individual person.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by PhDiva

I don't know but I was a bit uncomfortable with the tone of the article...Like the opening example was trying to lay blame from this increase of Blacks joining Latino orgs at the feet of the D9 instead of the individual person.

It was trying to lay blame at our feet. As if the "chicken and brew" comment was necessary.

If people want to join whatever organization that's their business. But when they throw jabs at other organizations or types of organizations to support their choices, I wonder if the organization of choice is really in their heart or if they are just temporarily disgruntled. Will the "chicken and brew" guy want to come back to the frat and try to get down at the grad chapter level, for example?

[jubilance1922]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

It was trying to lay blame at our feet. As if the "chicken and brew" comment was necessary.

If people want to join whatever organization that's their business. But when they throw jabs at other organizations or types of organizations to support their choices, I wonder if the organization of choice is really in their heart or if they are just temporarily disgruntled. Will the "chicken and brew" guy want to come back to the frat and try to get down at the grad chapter level, for example?

Yes.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by jubilance1922

Yes.

Well his name's out there so they should put him on the banned from membership roster.

[LatinaAlumna]

Originally Posted by PhDiva

Blacks and Latinos live and work in close proximity to one another on the East Coast and in Chicago but the same doesn't hold true on the West Coast.

It doesn't? I've never heard nor observed this before.

Take a look at cities like Compton, Inglewood, and Hawthorne, just to name a few in Los Angeles County (let alone the rest of the state).

[ms_gwyn]

Originally Posted by PhDiva

Blacks and Latinos live and work in close proximity to one another on the East Coast and in Chicago but the same doesn't hold true on the West Coast.

Your location states that you're in SoCal...but did you grow up here? Do you live in the Los Angeles area? Hell I grew up in Alhambra...high concentration of both Latinos and Asians. I also lived in the city of Los Angeles....went to Horace Mann Jr. HS, the entire population of the school were Af-Am and Latinos....

Hell all my life my best friends have been Latinas

so I question this statement and say ITS WRONG!

[L.O.C.K.]

Drawing any sort of large conclusions as to why a certain race or ethnicty joins a certain organization is very difficult to do, because you are bound to exclude some of the data you collect.

From personal experience, Asian American Greeks on the West Coast are VERY different than Asian Greeks everywhere else. This is probably due to Asian Americans having a bigger foothold in the communities and being more accepted.

Additionally, West Coast Asian American Greeks are generallymuch older than their East Coast (and rest of the country counterparts). The first organization founded outside of California (besides Rho Psi in 1916 at Cornell which has no collegiate members now), was my organization, Pi Delta Psi Fraternity, Inc., in 1994 in Binghamton, New York.

Moreover the reasons for creation are very different.

Pi Alpha Phi Fraternity was established in 1926 due to racial restrictions again Chinese Americans that prevented them from joining NIC orgs.
Sigma Phi Omega Sorority was established in 1949 as a haven for Japanese American women in response to the Anti-Japanese sentiment from WWII and following it.

My organization was established to unite various Asian cultures and provide a unifying voice and a haven for Asian American men.
Kappa Phi Lambda Sorority and other organizations established since the 1980's have generally followed this pattern of "Pan-Asian-ness", although it is interesting to note how South Asian American Greek orgs have developed their own niche as well.

While all of my brothers joined for different reasons, many joined because it promoted Asian culture and provided a Brotherhood that they needed.

There have been a few studies on Asian Americans in Greek orgs. One of the best is by Edith Wen-chu Chen which looks at Asian American women in White, Asian American, and Black sororities.

Her results show that the Asian American women in White sororities had no place to be comfortable or discuss their race/ethnicity - basically they had to conform.

Her results for Asian American women in Asian American sororities showed that it provided a haven where race and ethnicity issues could be discussed openly without fear of social ostricization.

Her results for the Asian American women in Black sororities showed that those women joined those organizations in order to transform how race is viewed in the U.S.

Note: She uses pseudonyms throughout the whole study, but uses real dates for Foundings, so it is clear which orgs are which.

Beta Tau: AKA
Pi Zeta Mu: DST
Gamma Phi Alpha: ZPhiB or SGRho (I can't remember)
Kappa Phi Kappa: SGRho or ZPhiB (I can't remember)

Grant it, this was done at UCLA, which is very different than East Coast schools. Her results show that all the Asian American women, except for one who was half Black half Asian, were in either ZPhiB or SGRho. Interviews with one member who was Filipina (and rejected) state:

"There was this social at the BT house, out in another part of town. And you had to dress up. They called it a tea but we didn't have any tea. (laughs) I stood out like a sore thumb. I was the only one who wasn't black. I was the only one. One thing happened that I kinda thought I was dog'd. I felt a little diss'd, like completely ignored. What happened was I was the first one to show up. And it turned out they gave prizes. And one of the door prizes was for the first person who showed up. They didn't give it to me. I didn't say anything. You know I wasn't like "Hey, wait a minute." But I think it would have been embarassing to give it to someone who wasn't black."

Karen then goes on to tell how she got rejected:

I got a letter in the mail a week after the tea saying "We regret to inform you..." But it was a real formal letter. And I assumed it was my G.P.A. But I ran into this girl, this woman who two days later came up to me. She was in BT. At the time I thought we were friends. And she was like "Karen, you know how it is, the voting process and everything. People just don't know you. And they have this impression of who you are because you're not Black". I think she said more than she was supposed to. Because another one of her sorority sisters was passing by and heard her and she was like, "Hilary, Hilary, come here." And that was it.

I think it's very interesting to see this. I in no way intend this to be a bash on a whole organization, because it clearly isn't. What I'm trying to show is that we all have preconceived notions of other races and ethnicities and stereotype them based on our experiences/beliefs. This episode just shows how one woman, who was Asian American, experience it when trying to join BT (AKA).

If anyone is interested in the study, it's REALLY good and well done. It's called "The Continuing Significance of Race: a Case Study of Asian American Women in White, Asian American, and African American Sororities"

Sorry for the long post!!

[Munchkin03]

Latino Greeks were bigger at my school than the NPHC groups, for whatever reason. There were more Caribbean blacks than African-Americans, so most of them gravitated towards the Latino groups, since there seemed to be more cultural similarities with Latinos than with American blacks. This held true for my grad school too, but it was smack in the middle of a few large Latino neighborhoods. The Asian fraternities and sororities were even bigger at both places.

I think after high school, that kids of color will gravitate towards their own ethnic group--especially if they had to assimilate during high school. For a kid who was the only Black/Asian/Latino person in their grade, neighborhood, or social group growing up, it's seriously like being offered a drink of water after being in the desert for 18 years; this feeling is even stronger if the other kids of color have similar experience of never having black friends, being shunned by other Latinos, and such things like that. So, sometimes that explains how students of color seem to, in the words of white students, "self-segregate."

I don't intend to make any generalizations, but this was the experience of many of the students of color that I interacted with in college and graduate school. I had some of that same experience, but I ended up joining an NPC group for several reasons.

[Drolefille]

L.O.C.K.

Thanks for that, it sounds very interesting.

ETA: Do you have a link or a digital copy? I can't find it online and I'm not sure where to look on my school's Journal search.