Michigan voters ban affirmative action

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

All social welfare isn't bad. To be frank, I'm not that upset with how it is now, I'm simply against the mindset that to improve, we need more of it. If I were in charge, I wouldn't go slashing all social welfare programs, I just think people place too much faith in government to solve the problems that we as citizens should be working on.

Hello, Frank.

I think we agree on this point. "Too much faith" is different than "it isn't the government's role."

[shinerbock]

I don't know that we agree. I don't think its the government's responsibility. Now, if we can do effective things through the government, lets do it, but I'm just tired of the "the government owes me" attitude. If anything, you owe the country, we all do.

[AKA_Monet]

I have no idea where this discussion is going. So, I am refocussing it.

People have problems, period.

Folks cannot get along...

Forty years ago, there were laws on the books in several states that prohibited the interaction between various groups. The United States government allowed it to happen. Through the efforts of numerous people (we all know who they are), it changed.

The reason why people are unable or unwilling or incapable of improving their live circumstances is mainly due to poverty. I just read that in a health journal. Poverty is not only economic but also occurs in one's mind...

Why is there an increase risk of becoming infected with HIV for African American women in the United States?

Some folks could not give a rat's ass about that statistic.

Here is why everyone should:

Because it is a public health issue. PUBLIC HEALTH. Meaning, that increased infection rates>means increased cost to treat>means increased HIV transmission rates>means increased opportunistic infectious (e.g. non-antibiotic treatable Tuberculosis)>means increased innocent other people becoming sick...

Hey, maybe it's cool for a "First World Country" like the United States to have >30,000 died due to untreated HIV infections in county hospitals.

Maybe it's cool, now, to see folks suffer. I know that kids these days are waaay too much into S&M.

But, I did not grow up like that and I think it is wrong to let "any of the least of these suffer..."

Besides, I would rather be part of a solution than part of the problem. That's me.

Maybe that is not how some of you all kids today think... Or care for that matter.

So us old GC'ers, just say, "kids today"...

Shinerbock, you are in law school, you know why "we" make laws. Why were the antiquated "Tuberculosis Laws" made?

DSTChaos, I know that some folks will NEVER tell me their real reason. Both you and I know why And no, I am not into "forcing" them to tell me. I want to see "their logic", how they go to "their conclusions". Both you and I know most of it is BS. But I enjoy seeing them walk thru it... I have to have some thrills in my life This is one of them... I love it, personally. Classic.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

DSTChaos, I know that some folks will NEVER tell me their real reason. Both you and I know why And no, I am not into "forcing" them to tell me. I want to see "their logic", how they go to "their conclusions". Both you and I know most of it is BS. But I enjoy seeing them walk thru it... I have to have some thrills in my life This is one of them... I love it, personally. Classic.

SisterGreek, I know when people don't know. I think folks like shinerbock actually do know and can articulate it quite well. It doesn't mean that I'll agree with everything they say, but maybe some things. But when I ask questions, I try to avoid patronizing rhetoricals unless I'm just reminding them that they don't know. If I'm really trying to open their eyes to something I know they don't realize or understand, I forego the pissing match and just share the info. Or I open the discussion to receive their viewpoints without hanging on every word waiting to shoot them down.

[shinerbock]

Well, I'll sum my views up on this....

increased government involvement=decreased personal responsibility

Some advances are a blessing and a burden. For example, am I glad we don't have to fight wars with heavy human casualties anymore? Of course. Do I think it has created a society without appreciation for sacrifice or a sense of responsibility? Yes.

Now, back to Contracts.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Well, I'll sum my views up on this....

increased government involvement=decreased personal responsibility

Some advances are a blessing and a burden. For example, am I glad we don't have to fight wars with heavy human casualties anymore? Of course. Do I think it has created a society without appreciation for sacrifice or a sense of responsibility? Yes.

Now, back to Contracts.

Then, why pay taxes??? That's beside the point.

For every war, there are heavy human casualties. That is the nature of war. That is why a "stategy" for minimizing before going to war is important. Without on, the war lingers and there is a catastrophic death toll.

Kids these days barely have "work ethic". Their "modelers" were poor. But then many of their "models" may have been Vietnam Vets or families of Vets who were MIA or POW...

At least that's what happened in my Uncle's family where he was a marine and did 2 tours in 'Nam.

[shinerbock]

AKA, well, I can only go on my own experience. Vietnam was quite a shift in the way America treats war, unfortunately. i'm simply saying that it seems my father's generation had a lot more of the "i'm gonna do whatever I have to to make sure my kids have ________," moreso than this generation.

I don't want to get off on a tangent, but I think part of it is we don't have a clear enemy. Granted, 9/11, Cold War, World Wars, you saw a lot of unity because we were bonded together for something and against something we felt to be threatening us. Its a much more complicated world now, we're not even sure we like our own country (some of us). Alright, this thread is getting ridiculous.

[madmax]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Hello, Frank.

I think we agree on this point. "Too much faith" is different than "it isn't the government's role."

Whose job is it to take care of your kids? That is the real problem and money isn't going to fix it.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by madmax

Whose job is it to take care of your kids? That is the real problem and money isn't going to fix it.

LOL--are you talking about the welfare mother's 100 kids or the illegal immigrant's 1000 kids?

Since we're talking about the norm and not whatever outliers make up the exceptions to the norm, the working poor and those actively seeking employment know that it's their responsibility to take care of their families and be hardworking, taxpaying citizens.

Now, onto finding another real problem. LOL.

[madmax]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

LOL--are you talking about the welfare mother's 100 kids or the illegal immigrant's 1000 kids?

Since we're talking about the norm and not whatever outliers make up the exceptions to the norm, the working poor and those actively seeking employment know that it's their responsibility to take care of their families and be hardworking, taxpaying citizens.

Now, onto finding another real problem. LOL.

Actually the working poor don't know it is their responsibility to take care of their families. Why do you think MOST of the kids that are poor are from single parent households? It is kind of tough to take care of kids that you don't even know.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by madmax

Actually the working poor don't know it is their responsibility to take care of their families. Why do you think MOST of the kids that are poor are from single parent households? It is kind of tough to take care of kids that you don't even know.

Uh...let's break your post down into topics.

Topic 1: The working poor and their sense of family responsibility. They have a strong sense of hard work and family responsibility. Being poor and having to depend on AFDC in any way has huge psychological implications and research indicates this.
Topic 2: Single parent families--especially common with the urban poor--disproportionately black and Hispanic. Yeah, we know this, so.....
Topic 3: Even with the prevalence of dead beat fathers in certain communities, the single mothers who are capable of doing so work damn hard to take care of their families. Therefore, the working poor know that it is their responsibility to take care of their families.