Racial Conflict

[Elephant Walk]

been watching wealthy white families act like trash for much of my life.

I've been watching wealthy black families act like trash for much of my life....they're called rappers. Ever seen master p and flavor flav?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

I've been watching wealthy black families act like trash for much of my life....they're called rappers. Ever seen master p and flavor flav?

Flavor flav probably isn't wealthy. I personally know a former platinum selling artist who is in Flavor flav's category (i.e., a has-been as far as the music scene is concerned). The guy's best chance at a good pay day related to his fame is a VH1 show much like flav has been doing. He actually has nothing left from his music days, his record label screwed him over badly -- something I understand is pretty much the norm.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

I've been watching wealthy black families act like trash for much of my life....they're called rappers. Ever seen master p and flavor flav?

Flavor Flav isn't wealthy--he's not even rich. However, Master p has managed to accumulate wealth through his companies and passed it down to his children. When's the last time you've seen Master P act like anything, btw?

Is that the only example of black or wealth that you could think of?

On another note, I sense that you don't really know what wealth is. Do you have as much in common with your friends as they assume that you do.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

On another note, I sense that you don't really know what wealth is. Do you have as much in common with your friends as they assume that you do.

I know a little about yachts, yes.

macallan- the fsu ztas, the samford ztas, the ucf ztas and the fsu pikes ARE among the tops on their respective campuses. i cannot speak for the others.

I don't know about the ztas...however Pikes are not tops at FSU. We aren't allowed to have conversations like this here, but they are far from it. The big house isn't a factor, it's the people.

[Minerva's Girl]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

generally the people who get those benefits are pretty qualified.

What do you base that logic on? We can all certainly name a high profile elected official who makes up words, had never been out of the country before taking office and had a raging alcohol problem, but still rose to power. And he certainly relied on his family and frat brothers for his opportunities. (This is just an example. Getting into that is another thread.) Anyway. . .don't get me wrong, all things being equal, I'm probably going to hire someone from my sorority, or my university, or my hometown etc. However, I'm going to make sure that "all things are equal" and I'm going to go out of my way to make sure that there is inclusion for those that should have a say, especially in a public institution.

[UGAalum94]

Elephant Walk and Shinerbock are saying out loud several of the "reasons" that good, smart, otherwise-not-racist members of GLOs at most of the SEC schools don't integrate their chapters.

The most elitist groups and group members end up controlling the racial attitudes in the system because other groups aren't brave enough to risk integrating since the "top" chapters aren't integrated. Any group wanted to improve its rank in the tiers has a hard time taking any risks.

Personally, I’d love to see a top chapter prove exactly how much of a top group it is by pledging some of the of the kids who happen to be Black but who also went to the same high schools, have professional parents, hold high educational goals and achievements, and who enjoy having white friends. At the big southern schools there are many Black students who fit that description, but they need to be actively recruited to go through rush. They’ve seen the system in action and have no reason to sign up for rush on their own.

One thing I want to throw out into the debate on race and class is that there are a lot of white people who aren't invited to join the most exclusive clubs and groups. Being white, even if you aren't trashy or redneck, in itself doesn't get one all of the perks. You might be less likely to get hassled by the cops if you are white, but being white alone doesn’t get you an invitation to join the country club or SAE.

So what I’m asking, I guess, is that the non-white members of the board don’t generalize too much about the benefits of white privilege. Some of us whities don't benefit that much from being white, and some of the activities that are undertaken to open things up or diversify, end up affecting non-elite, not-well-connected whites more than they break down the power of the elites.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

One thing I want to throw out into the debate on race and class is that there are a lot of white people who aren't invited to join the most exclusive clubs and groups. Being white, even if you aren't trashy or redneck, in itself doesn't get one all of the perks. You might be less likely to get hassled by the cops if you are white, but being white alone doesn’t get you an invitation to join the country club or SAE. So what I’m asking, I guess, is that the non-white members of the board don’t generalize too much about the benefits of white privilege. Some of us whities don't benefit that much.

True indeed, hence this discussion is about race and class. Courtesy of Elephant Walk. But that doesn't negate the fact that across contexts in this society wealthy people are more likely to be white and poor people are disproportionately nonwhite.

You don't have to playfully use "whities" when pleading to us for understanding. If the nonwhites that you speak to are to hear you, they can do so without that reference. BTW, you still have white privilege. It just doesn't benefit you in that specific instance, which pales in comparison to the many more socially significant instances that it will benefit you.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

BTW, you still have white privilege. It just doesn't benefit you in that specific instance, which pales in comparison to the many more socially significant instances that it will benefit you.

This is where I think you might be surprise to know what is was like to be the average white person. While it might be easier in many circumstance to be white than to be black, I think it's a mistake to conclude that the area of social significant instances is really as expansive as you imagine.

I think the value of being well connected cannot be underestimated, but just being white alone probably doesn't really work the magic that you think it does.

When you throw in the things we choose to project about ourselves culturally, ie, trashy whore like Paris Hilton VS. really rich rap star, white "culture" may seem to be privileged. But I don't think that privilege is as pronounced for the average person.

Shinerbock, I probably wasn't discriminating among you, Elephant Walk, and Macallan as much as I should have been. I have no idea if you are racist or not, but it seemed to me that the three of you were basically saying you couldn't include black members and be a top chapter. That seemed racist to me, but I'll take your word if you want to claim otherwise. I didn't mention Bush, but maybe that part wasn't addressed to me.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

I know a little about yachts, yes.

That's it? You're a small fry.