JHU Sigma Chi "Halloween in the Hood Party"

[shinerbock]

DSTS, how is that taking responsibility away from people? Taking responsibility away from people is when you criminalize (or in this case, have the university take action) in order to prevent future events. If you really wanted to emphasize responsibility, you'd let these people generally do what they want, let them deal with the consequences, and leave it up to the offended party to make a decision on what to do/not do in response.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

DSTS, how is that taking responsibility away from people? Taking responsibility away from people is when you criminalize (or in this case, have the university take action) in order to prevent future events. If you really wanted to emphasize responsibility, you'd let these people generally do what they want, let them deal with the consequences, and leave it up to the offended party to make a decision on what to do/not do in response.

Isn't that what's going on here?

The University hasn't specified that themed parties aren't allowed or that certain themes are not permissable for everyone else, did they? So therefore the University is assuming that smart people can take a hint and will govern themselves accordingly in light of recent events. If they choose not to govern themselves accordingly, they will deal with the consequences and the offended party (for instance, the black students who the BSU is representing) will make a decision on what to do/not to do in response. So maybe Sigma Chi will get their status back and be able to hold parties again, JHU is probably putting things on hold for them so that this situation will die down.

The BSU didn't make any real decisions, they brought attention to something and semi-protested. I don't know what campus organizations you all are used to but the student-representative ones at the Universities I've attended have all been extremely proactive, reactive, and activist just like the BSU is in this instance. If the University has a problem with that, they will put the BSU in its place. Oh well.

[AlexMack]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Isn't that what's going on here?

The University hasn't specified that themed parties aren't allowed or that certain themes are not permissable for everyone else, did they? So therefore the University is assuming that smart people can take a hint and will govern themselves accordingly in light of recent events. If they choose not to govern themselves accordingly, they will deal with the consequences and the offended party (for instance, the black students who the BSU is representing) will make a decision on what to do/not to do in response. So maybe Sigma Chi will get their status back and be able to hold parties again, JHU is probably putting things on hold for them so that this situation will die down.

The BSU didn't make any real decisions, they brought attention to something and semi-protested. I don't know what campus organizations you all are used to but the student-representative ones at the Universities I've attended have all been extremely proactive, reactive, and activist just like the BSU is in this instance. If the University has a problem with that, they will put the BSU in its place. Oh well.

I don't deny that you make good points, but hear me out. The invite was incredibly racist. However, Sigma Chi brothers saw it, deemed it highly inappropriate and asked that it be taken down. It was, then put back up. The BSU saw the invite and went over the party to see what was up. Fair enough, I would have done the same thing. They saw the skeleton and that was enough. They did not go into the party where they may or may not have found some hard evidence. Accusing the Sigma Chis of racism based upon a PotC skeleton and an invite the Sigma Chis themselves condemned is just out of hand. They don't have anything to go on other than the racist facebook invitation which Sigma Chi did not condone in any way, and a skeleton that was unrelated.
That's the problem here.

[shinerbock]

DSTS, maybe I should have said natural consequences. Isn't the university taking action against the fraternity? I think they should make the fraternity fend for themselves, and work to rebuild their image.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

DSTChaos, maybe I should have said natural consequences. Isn't the university taking action against the fraternity? I think they should make the fraternity fend for themselves, and work to rebuild their image.

What constitutes "natural consequences?" God's wrath? Volcanos and earthquakes?

Again, I don't know what campus cultures some of you are used to. If GLOs want to not have to potentially deal with university sanctions, be able to fend for themselves, and work on their OWN image, they need to remove themselves from the campus. If they choose to remain on the campus, they will always have to answer to the university and remember that their image as a GLO is never as important to the university as the university's image is. Moreover, campus organizations often have to respond to the challenges of other campus organizations, especially when other campus organizations have some political or administrative pull.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by centaur532

I don't deny that you make good points, but hear me out. The invite was incredibly racist. However, Sigma Chi brothers saw it, deemed it highly inappropriate and asked that it be taken down. It was, then put back up. The BSU saw the invite and went over the party to see what was up. Fair enough, I would have done the same thing. They saw the skeleton and that was enough. They did not go into the party where they may or may not have found some hard evidence. Accusing the Sigma Chis of racism based upon a PotC skeleton and an invite the Sigma Chis themselves condemned is just out of hand. They don't have anything to go on other than the racist facebook invitation which Sigma Chi did not condone in any way, and a skeleton that was unrelated.
That's the problem here.

So where is the disagreement? We both acknowledge that an investigation began as a result of a facebook advertisement. So they went to the party and the first thing they saw was a (misinterpreted) skeleton and they figured they wouldn't be welcomed or comfortable at the party, anyway, because they deemed it racially offensive. I wouldn't have gone into the party, either, unless I was going to call them out. Human beings are very unlikely to say "ohhhh, fun party...Pirates of the Carribean skeleton...I guess we can forget about the facebook invite and call it even."

The point of an investigation is to iron things out and see if further action needs to be taken, which is why we now know that it was one Sigma Chi who did the invitation and put it back up. That one Sigma Chi was punished before this investigation became public but how would the BSU really know this? Did the Sigma Chis attempt to do some form of outreach to smooth things over? If so, good. If not, bad. But if anyone is calling the entire chapter racist solely based on this information, they are idiots and I don't make it my business to debate about the thoughts and actions of idiots.

[Tom Earp]

The whole thing is B S!

Illegal-NO.
Insenative-YES.

Some people will get their noses bent out of joint for any small reason.

Chastise them and go along with life.

To many people are so thin skinned, they ought to stay in a closet and hide from the world.

[shinerbock]

DSTS, well I don't know how it works up there either. Its my opinion that organizations should be allowed to exist unless they break the law, or something else that really disturbs life at the university. Simply because something is not PC, and offends somebody, doesn't mean the organization should get the boot. An atheist group or a gay group probably doesn't reflect the values or students of a university, but that doesn't mean they should get reprimanded for their views. I'm just generally against legislating how people are allowed to think and act in their own time, regardless of what they're a member of. Let the group, and the national fraternity, decide what to do.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

DSTChaos

something else that really disturbs life at the university

Well there ya go. You don't get to determine what disturbs life at the university.