Active Military members speaking out against Iraq war.

[dekeguy]

Originally Posted by AXEAM

No offense but your post sounds like an Army info-commercial, not to say that you aren't making valid points b/c you are.. I spoke w/several active military members (when I worked @ the V.A hospital as a mental health therapist) who returned back from Iraq,the main concerns were not enough body armour, no metal under plates for their humvees or jeeps and not enough troops to do the job. Getting back to under plates for vehicals I've heard stories of units searching for scrap metal to jimmy rig it under the vehicals as a way of protection against IEDs. The arm forces of the United States of America should not have resort to such B.S as that. Another Big complaint was longer deployments then planned for...I know you and others will say thats the way it goes in war but I can understand the troops frustrations.

Inconvenience and frustration are valid points, and we all have read stories regarding unplanned and/or longer than expected deployments (please see thread titled "AVE ATQUE VALE") but my chief concern is that we understand that as in most things there are no simple answers. Improvised armor applied to vehicles not designed to carry the extra weight most often creates death traps for those who ride in them. One is usually better off using speed and agility along with street smarts to avoid/survive IEDs than to lumber sluggishly along in a grossly overloaded vehicle whose improvised armor not only fails to protect but actually adds to the shrapnel effect.
Our combat vehicles are very very good and can absorb a hell of a lot and still stay mission effective. Our logistics vehicles are also very good for the role they were designed to carry out. Unfortunately, they were not designed to carry armor as well as their payload of supplies, equipment, etc. When you add armor or under plating the suspension is over burdened and the cargo bed settles down low where it can cancel out the suspension, crimp the brake lines, and short out the electrical harness in addition to making the vehicle sluggish and hard to control. The troops in the Transportation Corps are always pointing this out.
Sorry if I sound like I am preaching, but this is a matter of terribly great importance to me. I got all my guys home alive and more or less in one piece, and I get wrapped around the axel when I see discussions about solutions or "improvements" that if followed or applied could actually get soldiers a ride home in a rubber bag. Its a knee jerk protective response for the troops that I saw in my Dad when he talks about Viet Nam (Company Commander on his first tour and Battalion Commander on his second) and now I find in myself (one tour, CO of Armored Cavalry Troop) when the subject of deployment comes up.
dekeguy
Captain, USAR
Been there, done that, hope I don't have to do it again, but ready if needed.

[AXEAM]

Originally Posted by dekeguy

Inconvenience and frustration are valid points, and we all have read stories regarding unplanned and/or longer than expected deployments (please see thread titled "AVE ATQUE VALE") but my chief concern is that we understand that as in most things there are no simple answers. Improvised armor applied to vehicles not designed to carry the extra weight most often creates death traps for those who ride in them. One is usually better off using speed and agility along with street smarts to avoid/survive IEDs than to lumber sluggishly along in a grossly overloaded vehicle whose improvised armor not only fails to protect but actually adds to the shrapnel effect.
Our combat vehicles are very very good and can absorb a hell of a lot and still stay mission effective. Our logistics vehicles are also very good for the role they were designed to carry out. Unfortunately, they were not designed to carry armor as well as their payload of supplies, equipment, etc. When you add armor or under plating the suspension is over burdened and the cargo bed settles down low where it can cancel out the suspension, crimp the brake lines, and short out the electrical harness in addition to making the vehicle sluggish and hard to control. The troops in the Transportation Corps are always pointing this out.
Sorry if I sound like I am preaching, but this is a matter of terribly great importance to me. I got all my guys home alive and more or less in one piece, and I get wrapped around the axel when I see discussions about solutions or "improvements" that if followed or applied could actually get soldiers a ride home in a rubber bag. Its a knee jerk protective response for the troops that I saw in my Dad when he talks about Viet Nam (Company Commander on his first tour and Battalion Commander on his second) and now I find in myself (one tour, CO of Armored Cavalry Troop) when the subject of deployment comes up.
dekeguy
Captain, USAR
Been there, done that, hope I don't have to do it again, but ready if needed.

No you're not preaching. Your posts are both educational and interesting it's always good to have an opinion from someone who has actually served in Iraq.