Your thoughts on AI: discussion goes here.

[greeklawgirl]

[QUOTE=Tom Earp;1334815]I have seen it posted many times that AIing is part of Ritual. Since when?

It is new recruitment process and has nothing to do with Ritual which is part of indoctranation in Initiation.

While it may not be what the undergraduates go thrhough, it is still a feeling process by Alums who are considering someone and that is all.




Alumna Initiation is a form of membership selection. Membership Selection is ritual.

And, slightly off-topic, The Alpha Gamma Delta Quarterly is primarily for sisters, but sent to other members of the public as well. The article I posted in the Alpha Gamma Delta forum has some good information that I feel comfortable in having the public see. Information beyond that article--and whatever else Alpha Gamma Delta chooses to post on the website--may veer onto membership selection, and I will not have that discussion online or with anyone but a sister.

[UGAalum94]

Rush is also a form of membership selection. Do you hold that all aspects of rush are ritual as well?

Surely, there would be parts of membership selection (and therefore ritual) in both, but it doesn't follow that the entire process is ritual.

[greeklawgirl]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

Rush is also a form of membership selection. Do you hold that all aspects of rush are ritual as well?

Surely, there would be parts of membership selection (and therefore ritual) in both, but it doesn't follow that the entire process is ritual.

The parties would not be membership selection. Setting up for them is not membership selection. Breaking them down is not membership selection. The process of how we decide who receives invitations and bids is membership selection.

The process by which we select our candidates for alumna initiation is membership selection. The Quarterly article states that, yes, we have alumna initiation, and alumnae and collegiate chapters should bring women that they think are outstanding candidates forward. But the process of how petitions are actually approved, and what our exact criteria for approval/denial of petitions is MEMBERSHIP SELECTION.

[UGAalum94]

I agree with your assessment, Greeklawgirl, but I believe that enough information about AI remains in the non-ritual aspects that some questions could be posed and answered on GreekChat without violation of ritual.

Obviously, I don't mean question about the areas you've outlined as membership selection.

[Tom Earp]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

Rush is also a form of membership selection. Do you hold that all aspects of rush are ritual as well?

Surely, there would be parts of membership selection (and therefore ritual) in both, but it doesn't follow that the entire process is ritual.

Thank you. This sheds a new light on Recruitment whether it be Undergraduate or Alum.

I do not understand it from a Fraternity point of view, but it does help!

We as a Fraternity look at a pnm/pnai as a candidate and do not see any thing of a ritual until they are put through a PNM Ritual which can be either an open or closed.

When it comes to being inducted into said GLO, then it is toatally secret for them as fully Initiated members.

[lauralaylin]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

Rush is also a form of membership selection. Do you hold that all aspects of rush are ritual as well?

Surely, there would be parts of membership selection (and therefore ritual) in both, but it doesn't follow that the entire process is ritual.

Your logic doesn't add up. Membership selection is a part of rush, but it's not the same thing as rush. That's like saying the nm program is the same as initiation. It is one small part, and one that we don't discuss with anyone else. AI is the same thing. If we do AI, we can say that, but we don't tell outsiders anything about how we choose our members for AI, just like we don't tell anyone how we choose our members as undergrads. I can't speak for any other groups, but I will not discuss anything about AI beyond the basic common knowledge stuff with anyone outside of Alpha Phi.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by lauralaylin

Your logic doesn't add up. Membership selection is a part of rush, but it's not the same thing as rush. That's like saying the nm program is the same as initiation. It is one small part, and one that we don't discuss with anyone else. AI is the same thing. If we do AI, we can say that, but we don't tell outsiders anything about how we choose our members for AI, just like we don't tell anyone how we choose our members as undergrads. I can't speak for any other groups, but I will not discuss anything about AI beyond the basic common knowledge stuff with anyone outside of Alpha Phi.

Right, but you could talk about basic common knowledge stuff, which for a poster asking a question on GreekChat might be something that she didn't already know. Or an AI member could share her story and remind people how the ideals of a group apply at any age.

There have been some people asserting that anything at all about AI is ritual and shouldn't be discussed period. My point is that, just like rush and new member programs, there are public parts and secret parts.

I've never advocated that ritual or secret information be posted on GreekChat. I've just made the point that anything that is not ritual, a violation of GLO policy, or a violation of the TOS should be permitted as a topic of discussion.

It doesn't mean I think it's a great idea for discussion or that I would discuss it myself. I think some of us make ourselve look bad and like we don't have good sense or good manners. But if it's not a violation of policy, ritual, or TOS, that decision should be left up to the individual.

[valkyrie]

Originally Posted by lauralaylin

Your logic doesn't add up. Membership selection is a part of rush, but it's not the same thing as rush. That's like saying the nm program is the same as initiation. It is one small part, and one that we don't discuss with anyone else. AI is the same thing. If we do AI, we can say that, but we don't tell outsiders anything about how we choose our members for AI, just like we don't tell anyone how we choose our members as undergrads. I can't speak for any other groups, but I will not discuss anything about AI beyond the basic common knowledge stuff with anyone outside of Alpha Phi.

Very well said, and I agree.

I've also grown uncomfortable when women who are pursuing AI post about it in detail because it seems to (perhaps indirectly) end up revealing information that members of the involved organizations would rather not be public. I can think of one GCer in particular who posted a very long, very detailed account of her AI process, including names of organizations that rejected her and the one she joined. I'd be mortified and appalled to have my organization named in a story like that.

At this point, I don't understand why any hopeful AI would even WANT to post her story on GC before being initiated -- there's too much downside. After she's initiated, like others have said, she's a member and there's no reason for her to post anything in an AI forum. This leads me to believe that the ONLY people who might benefit from the AI forum are those who are shopping for a sorority or trying to determine which sororities are "easier" to join through AI. Why would anyone in the world be in favor of that?

[valkyrie]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

Right, but you could talk about basic common knowledge stuff, which for a poster asking a question on GreekChat might be something that she didn't already know.

I hate to post twice in a row, but oh well.

If something is "basic common knowledge stuff," why wouldn't someone on GC already know it? Even if something is "basic common knowledge" or non-ritual, public information, why is GC an appropriate forum?

To be blunt, it sounds like you're saying GC is the place for people who don't know "basic common knowledge" and aren't capable of asking sorority members directly and in real life. I mean, if you were interested in AI with AGD, wouldn't you talk to an AGD in person, rather than trying to find an answer to your question on a message board?

[greekalum]

Originally Posted by valkyrie

This leads me to believe that the ONLY people who might benefit from the AI forum are those who are shopping for a sorority or trying to determine which sororities are "easier" to join through AI. Why would anyone in the world be in favor of that?

Well, the less-qualified alumnae desperately seeking to fulfill their unfulfilled college dreams would be in favor of it. That doesn't make it a good idea or beneficial to Greek Life.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by valkyrie

I hate to post twice in a row, but oh well.

If something is "basic common knowledge stuff," why wouldn't someone on GC already know it? Even if something is "basic common knowledge" or non-ritual, public information, why is GC an appropriate forum?

To be blunt, it sounds like you're saying GC is the place for people who don't know "basic common knowledge" and aren't capable of asking sorority members directly and in real life. I mean, if you were interested in AI with AGD, wouldn't you talk to an AGD in person, rather than trying to find an answer to your question on a message board?

I can think of questions that might be embarrassing to ask in real life but that wouldn't be secret.

[valkyrie]

Such as?

[UGAalum94]

maybe like, do I have to have a college degree?


Depending on how you knew the folks in real life, it might be embarrassing to have to ask them.

[greekalum]

Actually, that question would depend on which organization you wanted to join as an AI, and not all organizations make that kind of thing public.

So you think, rather than having someone just ask their potential AI sponsor or whatever, "Hey, I'm honored by this possibility, but I do not have a college degree, is that a problem?" it would be better for someone to come here, say "I want to become an AI of Harry Potter, but don't have a college degree, is this possible"? and have people post, "well, XYZ and DEF will take you but ABC won't"??

[valkyrie]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

maybe like, do I have to have a college degree?

Depending on how you knew the folks in real life, it might be embarrassing to have to ask them.

"What are the qualifications for alumnae initiation into XYZ?" That's not embarrassing at all.

Also, if that information is NOT available on the organization's website, why is a woman entitled to it? A member might choose to tell her, if AI qualifications are considered public by the organization. However, I don't think it's appropriate to broadcast it on the internet, unless that clearly is okay with the organization, which could be indicated by having the information on the organization's website -- where the interested woman could've found it herself.