Hazing -- Good or bad? - Page 13

DSTCHAOS · #**181** 10-05-2006, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macallan25

I don't see how doing pushups is any more strenuous than those crazy line dances that bglos do. If one of them died of a heart attack...I guess you could say the same things.

Don't be a moron. We're talking about hazing pledges. That's a topic that doesn't have to be broken down to NPHC, NPC, and IFC. Hazing is a universal problem so don't attempt to create division as a diversionary tactic.

Either case, the strolls that BGLOs do are typically for already initiated members. If they pass out as a result of WILLINGLY participating in a stroll, it is unfortunate, but it is NOT hazing and the chapter and organization are NOT responsible.

macallan25 · #**182** 10-05-2006, 02:06 PM

So what if a pledge is WILLING to participate in doing pushups?

DSTCHAOS · #**183** 10-05-2006, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macallan25

So what if a pledge is WILLING to participate in doing pushups?

Great.

But pledge "willingness" is different than the willingness of duly initiated members. If they could get away with NOT doing it and still be a pledge in good standing, then wonderful. Chances are, they couldn't get away with NOT doing it. And pledges along with pledge leaders know this reality.

neosoul · #**184** 10-05-2006, 02:58 PM

BWHAHAHAHAHA @ crazy line dances

shinerbock · #**185** 10-05-2006, 03:02 PM

I think its a pretty easy choice, you either do it, or you leave. You're telling me 18 year old kids can go fight for the country, yet they shouldnt be made to choose between participating in fraternity activities or walking out the door? Give me a break. If you're worried about having to make that choice, just don't pledge in the first place. Go join SGA or something with all the other greek rejects.

bows&toes · #**186** 10-05-2006, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Great.

But pledge "willingness" is different than the willingness of duly initiated members. If they could get away with NOT doing it and still be a pledge in good standing, then wonderful. Chances are, they couldn't get away with NOT doing it. And pledges along with pledge leaders know this reality.

They always have the option of walking out the door. We would even give them a ride home if needed and we make sure to let them know that. They would still be treated with respect on campus when we run into them. This has happened in the past, everything done during pledgeship is voluntary they can either do it or depledge.

Tom Earp · #**187** 10-05-2006, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bows&toes

They always have the option of walking out the door. We would even give them a ride home if needed and we make sure to let them know that. They would still be treated with respect on campus when we run into them. This has happened in the past, everything done during pledgeship is voluntary they can either do it or depledge.

Interesting post and concept!

So a "pledge" dies then what is it called?

Some people just do not get it do they?

Elephant Walk · #**188** 10-05-2006, 04:48 PM

Quote:

So a "pledge" dies then what is it called?

As they have said before, find me an incident where that has happened. I'm sorry your pledgeship was easy, but that's not how things are done in top chapters. Find an incident where a healthy pledge has somehow keeled over doing physical work. I know there have been alcohol related incidents, but that's not what we are advocating.

I know there are stories as mentioned before, but find it on here. Actual proof instead of something you heard most likely on greekchat

shinerbock · #**189** 10-05-2006, 05:05 PM

Tom, what the hell are you talking about? I've never heard of people dying doing scavenger hunts or line ups. If someone dies doing what we do, there'd only be one thing to call it, an accident. If your line of reasoning is that we somehow caused their death through our activities, then I guess Auburn is responsible everytime someone dies driving back to school. People have the option to participate, nobody makes them.

People pull the "hazing kills" line out all the time. Hazing doesn't even kill in situation we won't do...like making them eat gross food or shame themselves. The more I read this board, the more I think hazing is a good thing...Maybe some on here would have gained a little thicker skin and realized that personal responsibility is not a bad thing.

SoCalGirl · #**190** 10-05-2006, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tallgreekalum

Perhaps your chapter should spend more time teaching manners and less time hazing.

And BTW, I have left more pledges quivering in fear without ever raising my voice or insisting on stupid, sophomoric physical demands than you could ever hope to. I still meet guys I questioned fifteen years ago who break out in a cold sweat just looking at me. I've had guys run out of the room. I've had guys break down and cry in front of me. I've had men tell me it was one of the most emotional things they've ever experienced. I believe that heathy stress is an integral part of a meaningful pledge program. I know what I'm doing when I interact with pledges, which I do 2-3x a week.

I do believe that would qualify as "emotional harm". If a grown man is still having a physical reaction (sweat) to "the most emotional things they've ever experienced" it's not because the emotional things were positive experiences for him.

OtterXO · #**191** 10-05-2006, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

As they have said before, find me an incident where that has happened. I'm sorry your pledgeship was easy, but that's not how things are done in top chapters. Find an incident where a healthy pledge has somehow keeled over doing physical work. I know there have been alcohol related incidents, but that's not what we are advocating.

I know there are stories as mentioned before, but find it on here. Actual proof instead of something you heard most likely on greekchat

Actually there was a story ( I think last year) of two female pledges who drowned while participating in a pledging activity. I don't recall there being alcohol involved. I'll see if I can find an article. It was a huge deal on the news in L.A.
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/LAW/09/23/sorority.death/ Well it was 2002, but here's the article.

And I agree with SoCalGirl above.

Tom Earp · #**192** 10-05-2006, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Tom, what the hell are you talking about? I've never heard of people dying doing scavenger hunts or line ups. If someone dies doing what we do, there'd only be one thing to call it, an accident. If your line of reasoning is that we somehow caused their death through our activities, then I guess Auburn is responsible everytime someone dies driving back to school. People have the option to participate, nobody makes them.

People pull the "hazing kills" line out all the time. Hazing doesn't even kill in situation we won't do...like making them eat gross food or shame themselves. The more I read this board, the more I think hazing is a good thing...Maybe some on here would have gained a little thicker skin and realized that personal responsibility is not a bad thing.

What do you not understand?

Okay, you have "Plegdes" do push ups and one dies because you do not know he has a physical problem and neither does he.

Cool, that is neat isnt it?

Do you and your active chapter care?

Edited to Ask a question:

So, this person is only A "PLEDGE" if this happens.

He dosent count as a person?

OtterXO · #**193** 10-05-2006, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

What do you not understand?

Okay, you have "Plegdes" do push ups and one dies because you do not know he has a physical problem and neither does he.

Cool, that is neat isnt it?

Do you and your active chapter care?

Edited to Ask a question:

So, this person is only A "PLEDGE" if this happens.

He dosent count as a person?

Tom, I don't get the impression that he wouldn't CARE if someone died. I don't agree with him on the hazing issue, but don't make him out to be Satan.

shinerbock · #**194** 10-05-2006, 07:04 PM

If someone dies doing pushups because of a physical injury nobody knows about, thats just a freak accident. The same could happen if he had to walk up the stairs to class on a hot day. Now if he starts feeling faint and you keep making him work, thats one thing, but if you're like "do 20 pushups" and he suddenly dies in the middle of it, I don't think you could blame the fraternity.

DSTCHAOS · #**195** 10-05-2006, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bows&toes

They always have the option of walking out the door and, therefore, not be affiliated with my fraternity.

Fixed that for you.

The issue was never whether or not they could technically choose not participate in the "hazing" activities (that may or may not "pledging"). The issue was always what happens as a result of choosing not to participate in the "hazing" activities.