Thailand WTF??

[blueangel]

But also of importance is that the military leader who led the coup and is now in power (General Sonthi Boonyaratglin)is a Muslim in a mostly Buddhist country. (Islam makes up only 4-percent of the population of Thailand).

This is of note as there have been numerous Muslim political uprisings from the three provinces bording Malasia. There has been religious extremism and violence in this Muslim community.

The new party is called the Council for Democratic Reform under Constitutional Monarchy (CDRM)... however, it is quite the misnomer since he has already drastically curtailed democratic rights.

In fact, he has imposed martial law, thrown out the constitution, an dissolved the national parliament. Any demonstrations or political gatherings are banned. Censorship requirements have been imposed on the media.

It's gotten so bad that radio stations are not allowed to take phone calls, and webmaster are being held accountable by the new government for everything posted on their site (including bulletin board postings by Thai residents).

[neosoul]

now that's how a bloodless coup is done...

[RU OX Alum]

Originally Posted by blueangel

But also of importance is that the military leader who led the coup and is now in power (General Sonthi Boonyaratglin)is a Muslim in a mostly Buddhist country. (Islam makes up only 4-percent of the population of Thailand).

that i didn't know, that gives me a reason at least, as to why

Free Thailand!!

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

that i didn't know, that gives me a reason at least, as to why

I don't think that the general's religion has much if anything to do with the coup. Prime Minister Thaksin has been a fairly controversial figure in Thai politics lately -- very popular in some quarters while very unpopular and distrusted in many others -- and the country has been in somewhat of a state of political crisis for a while. Following elections in April (which parties opposed to Thaksin had boycotted to protest what they saw as Thaksin's manipulation of the process), the subsequent invalidation of that election by the courts who stepped in at the request of the king, and a meeting with the king, Thaksin had said he would act only as Caretaker Prime Minister when the legislature convened again.

The king endorsed the coup the day after it occurred, and there is fairly wide speculation and assumption that he supported, at least tacitly, the coup, prior to its occurrence. It is presumed that the coup could not have occurred or succeeded without the king's support.

There have been a number of coups during the king's 60-year reign, and the king's influence and immense popularity should not be underestimated.

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

yeah, there's some riots in Romania about gov't. corruption.

Do you mean Hungary?

[RU OX Alum]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Do you mean Hungary?

yeah, i think so....either way, it sucks...there seems to be a lot of this going on lately

[_Opi_]

Originally Posted by blueangel

But also of importance is that the military leader who led the coup and is now in power (General Sonthi Boonyaratglin)is a Muslim in a mostly Buddhist country. (Islam makes up only 4-percent of the population of Thailand).

This is of note as there have been numerous Muslim political uprisings from the three provinces bording Malasia. There has been religious extremism and violence in this Muslim community.

You bring up Islam and equate extremism with it. That part of the world has alot of religious rebels/militants of many stripes. Your post makes it seem like religion was the ultimate drive for the coup when it's obviously not.

Religion is not the issue here. It's government internal problems.

[blueangel]

Originally Posted by _Opi_

You bring up Islam and equate extremism with it. That part of the world has alot of religious rebels/militants of many stripes. Your post makes it seem like religion was the ultimate drive for the coup when it's obviously not.

Religion is not the issue here. It's government internal problems.

It's both. The big problem in Thailand is the extremist Muslim insugency in the southern portion of the country. It was hoped that the general would be able to stop the violence... but he hasn't.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...1-1702,00.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...092700154.html

[RACooper]

Originally Posted by blueangel

But also of importance is that the military leader who led the coup and is now in power (General Sonthi Boonyaratglin)is a Muslim in a mostly Buddhist country. (Islam makes up only 4-percent of the population of Thailand).

This is of note as there have been numerous Muslim political uprisings from the three provinces bording Malasia. There has been religious extremism and violence in this Muslim community.

Hmmm...

Yes it's Islam that is the only hotbed of extremism in South East Asia

Perhaps you should look into the number of Christian (and specifically Roman Catholics) extremists/militants that have been responsible for attacks and killings in the region...

So what if the guy is Muslim, a Muslim (like a Christian) can come in a lot of "flavours". Is he overtly religious or secular? Is he a fundamentalist or mainstream? Is he a spiritualist or literalist? These are the questions I'd like answered, regardless of his particular faith - because Fundamentalist, Literalists, or even Overtly Religious are all waring signs in my opinion...

[Tom Earp]

Just out of curosity, ah any one checked to see how many Democrocies there are in the world?

[blueangel]

Originally Posted by RACooper

Hmmm...

Yes it's Islam that is the only hotbed of extremism in South East Asia

Perhaps you should look into the number of Christian (and specifically Roman Catholics) extremists/militants that have been responsible for attacks and killings in the region...

So what if the guy is Muslim, a Muslim (like a Christian) can come in a lot of "flavours". Is he overtly religious or secular? Is he a fundamentalist or mainstream? Is he a spiritualist or literalist? These are the questions I'd like answered, regardless of his particular faith - because Fundamentalist, Literalists, or even Overtly Religious are all waring signs in my opinion...

I agree that there are extremists in many religions. All one has to do is look at the Crusades, or the Salem Witch trials.... hence, why I'm not a fan of organized religion.

However, and maybe Opi can chime in here... what is one to think about Islam when the final words of Mohammed to his disciples was, "I was ordered to fight all men until they say, "There is no god but Allah."

and, in Qur'an :39 it says, "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah." and "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief --non Muslims) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone."

and in Ishaq :587 "Our onslaught will not be a weak and faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violenty before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight unti our religion is established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace."

Perhaps I'm not reading these quotes correctly, but it doesn't seem like a faith of tolerance and peace. Opi.. could you please clarify?

[RU OX Alum]

I'm starting to seriously doubt religion as a motive anyway, but not ready to rule it out either. apperatly people had the day off work and went to have their pictures taken with soldiers, etc. One guy kept something as a souverior. I read that since that King has been reigning, there have been like 7 coups, and he is now more popular than ever, and probably more powerful than some extremeist groups in his country. Go Thailand!!! I hope they will be okay through this.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by blueangel

It's both. The big problem in Thailand is the extremist Muslim insugency in the southern portion of the country. It was hoped that the general would be able to stop the violence... but he hasn't.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...1-1702,00.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...092700154.html

I read both of those articles. Neither suggests or supports a claim that "the big problem in Thailand is the extremist Muslim insurgency in the southern portion of the country." (Your words, my emphasis.) The closest either gets to that is this from The Australian:

More than 1400 people have died in the conflict in Thailand's far south since early 2004. The violence has been blamed on Malay separatism, religious extremism and organised crime in the border region.

Thaksin Shinawatra, the former premier ousted in last week's coup, has been accused of inflaming tensions there with heavy-handed tactics.

There have been hopes the Muslim army chief who led the coup, General Sonthi Boonyaratglin, may be able to ease the unrest.

Notice that coupled with "religious extremism" is "Malay separatism" (and organized crime). Notice also that nowhere does the article say that this was the reason for the coup.

I'm not saying religious extremism and Malay separatism haven't been a significant problem in Thailand, nor am I denying that many thought the former Prime Minister fanned the flames of the problem. But that's just a part -- and I think in the grand scheme of things, a relatively minor part -- of a much, much bigger picture that led to the coup.

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

I read that since that King has been reigning, there have been like 7 coups, and he is now more popular than ever, and probably more powerful than some extremeist groups in his country.

As I said earlier, the popularity of the King -- the longest serving head of state in the world -- and the reverence with which he is viewed in Thailand really can't be overstated.

[_Opi_]

Originally Posted by blueangel

I agree that there are extremists in many religions. All one has to do is look at the Crusades, or the Salem Witch trials.... hence, why I'm not a fan of organized religion.

However, and maybe Opi can chime in here... what is one to think about Islam when the final words of Mohammed to his disciples was, "I was ordered to fight all men until they say, "There is no god but Allah."

and, in Qur'an :39 it says, "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah." and "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief --non Muslims) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone."

and in Ishaq :587 "Our onslaught will not be a weak and faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violenty before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight unti our religion is established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace."

Perhaps I'm not reading these quotes correctly, but it doesn't seem like a faith of tolerance and peace. Opi.. could you please clarify?

Lady, this thread is about Thailand, not about Islam.

Second, I hope that you picked up an actual translated Quran and quoted, because there are alot of false verses attributed to the Quran online. I, however, will not be verifying any of these verses for you IF YOU DID GET THEM ONLINE.

Third, even if you got it from the hardcopy of the Quran, you can't just read a passage and run with it. You have to put into context (meaning reading the verses before it, and after it).

Fourth, it seems like you are set to blame this coup on extremist islamist fundamentalist terrorists or whatever word is in right now. You can if you want to, but it will become obvious that you have don't have a clue about world politics.

[blueangel]

Originally Posted by _Opi_

Lady, this thread is about Thailand, not about Islam.

Second, I hope that you picked up an actual translated Quran and quoted, because there are alot of false verses attributed to the Quran online. I, however, will not be verifying any of these verses for you IF YOU DID GET THEM OFFLINE.

Third, even if you got it from the hardcopy of the Quran, you can't just read a passage and run with it. You have to put into context (meaning reading the verses before it, and after it).

Fourth, it seems like you are set to blame this coup on extremist islamist fundamentalist terrorists or whatever word is in right now. You can if you want to, but it will become obvious that you have don't have a clue about world politics.

No, Opi, it's about Thailand and Islam because more than 1700 people have been killed and another 2500 injured on both sides since the Muslim insurgency began in the southern portion of the country January of 2004. Thaksin Shinawatra was thrown out of power last week mainly because of the way he dealt with those Muslim uprisings, among other things. I agree he was a poor leader.. but I'm not pleased at a military coup (btw.. this is Thailand's 18th) and the quick demise of democracy in that country since the coup. The hope was that a Muslim leader would cool the troubles in the Muslim dominated southern portion of the country, but it hasn't.

The reason that I asked you about the quotes is because, like the Bible and other religious books, they can be interpreted many different ways. I'm trying to understand how these words do not urge those of who practice the Islamic faith to demand everyone to convert through force, if necessary. This directly relates to the topic at hand since Thailand is going through a Buddhist/Muslim struggle. There has been a rash of bombings on Buddhist temples, attacks on schools, and police stations.

Would you therefore, be kind enough to explain them to me and put them in context?

Did I misquote what Mohammed said in his final words to his disciples? Did he not say, "I was ordered to fight all men until they say, "There is no god but Allah."

I'm struggling to understand Islam and how it can be a religion of peace. Maybe you can provide some insight.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by blueangel

I agree that there are extremists in many religions. All one has to do is look at the Crusades, or the Salem Witch trials.... hence, why I'm not a fan of organized religion.

Well, I hope if the Crusades and the Salem Witch trials are going to be taken into account in critiquing organized religion, charitable works, hospitals, care of the poor, the establishment of educational institutions and the role of organized religion in social movements like the abolitionist and civil rights movements, just to name a few contributions of organized religion, will also get some consideration

Originally Posted by blueangel

Thaksin Shinawatra was thrown out of power last week mainly because of the way he dealt with those Muslim uprisings, among other things.

You keep saying this, but so far I haven't read a single thing anywhere other than your own posts to back this assertion up. Most articles I have read and most reports I have heard about the coup barely mention the insurgency if they mention it at all, giving much higher priority to a list of other grievances against Thaksin. While I agree that Sonthi was named to head the army in the hopes that he could do better than Thaksin in dealing with the insurgency, I think if you look at the reasons for protests against Thaksin in the last few years, you'll see quite a few things on the "grievance list" ahead of his handling of the insurgency.

(And of course, to treat it as a "Muslim" insurgency may be quite misleading, as it may be as much an ethnic Malay vs. Thai dispute, much how the Catholic-Protestant distinction in Ireland is as much or more about native Irish vs. British as it is about religion).

So what is your source for saying "Thaksin Shinawatra was thrown out of power last week mainly because of the way he dealt with those Muslim uprisings"?