NPC Quota, Release Figures and Quota Additions (Updated 8/7/2007)

[UGAalum94]

This question goes way beyond the scope of anything I'm really entitled to know, but could an official rush advisor anonymously post modified data on a school's rush to basically show how different systems work?

Like make up group names and return rates, and walk us through what happens at schools with different systems?

Again, I'm simply an alum, not any kind of advisor, and I don't really need to know any of this, but I'm curious about how things have actually worked. Quota additions and release figures seem like they would be wonderful, and yet schools (it seems based on threads from the last few years) seem to have trouble implementing them in a way that works.

[gphiangel624]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

This question goes way beyond the scope of anything I'm really entitled to know, but could an official rush advisor anonymously post modified data on a school's rush to basically show how different systems work?

Like make up group names and return rates, and walk up through what happens at schools with different systems?

Again, I'm simply an alum, not any kind of advisor, and I don't really need to know any of this, but I'm curious about how things have actually worked. Quota additions and release figures seem like they would be wonderful, and yet schools (it seems based on threads from the last few years) seem to have trouble implementing them in a way that works.

I'm trying to figure out exactly what you mean so I can maybe provide a response. When you say "official rush advisor," I'm assuming you mean a chapter's recruitment advisor, right? Not a campus' Greek/Panhellenic Advisor, or person administering recruitment? If you're asking to get a mockup from a campus perspective, I'd be willing to share how it works at my university (using made-up names/return rates, etc.) if no one is opposed to it.

[UGAalum94]

I don't need to be able to match the data to any one school or group, but I'd like to read about how the quota additions and release figure recruitment system works.

I wanted it to come from someone who had actual knowledge of one system's result, rather than just someone making something up about how they thought it should work.

A campus greek advisor would be ideal, but I doubt they'd be willing to post on greek chat.

As an advisor to one chapter, do you get to see other chapters' return results and releases?

[gphiangel624]

Ok, that makes sense then...

I work as my campus' Panhellenic Advisor, so I see all of the figures and know how it works from the "inside." Again, if no one objects, I'm willing to make up some sample figures to explain. I don't think it would be a problem to do this, but I'd like to get some thoughts from others before posting how it works on GC.

Advisors for individual chapters should not see other chapters' return results and releases. Those are confidential, so I don't and cannot share that information as Panhellenic Advisor. I treat release figures the same as I do PNM rankings/pref cards. But if chapters want to share, that's their perogative (not that they do on my campus).

[UGAalum94]

I understand wanting to get some feedback first.

You sound like the perfect person to do this.

Were you the advisor before the era of release figures and quota additions so you can contrast the old and new? I'm thrilled if I get to hear about the new alone, but I'd be interested in the comparision too.

Thanks!

[gphiangel624]

Last year was my first year as the Panhellenic Advisor and our campus' first year with the new release figures, but I had to pull together the previous 3 years of release figures info in order to be ready for the new method. I also assisted my chapter for 2 years on the alumnae side before that, so I know how the old method worked as well.

Just from a general perspective, the new method is awesome- not only does it make parties smaller and easier for chapters to manage (there may be some disagreement with me on this part, esp. from larger campuses), it also gives a PNM more realistic choices throughout the recruitment process and keeps a larger percentage of PNMs in the process longer. We saw a lot of great results from it last year, though some of our chapters were hesitant and worried with their release numbers. In the end, 5 of the 6 chapters ended up making quota (4 of them with QAs) and the one that didn't make it was only off by 2 members. It was the best turnout in terms of chapters making quota (and getting close to it) that our campus has had in at least 10 years.

[UGAalum94]

It sound like it's working perfectly at your campus!
Are there groups who still resist using the release figures?

[ADPi Conniebama]

Originally Posted by gphiangel624

Last year was my first year as the Panhellenic Advisor and our campus' first year with the new release figures, but I had to pull together the previous 3 years of release figures info in order to be ready for the new method. I also assisted my chapter for 2 years on the alumnae side before that, so I know how the old method worked as well.

Just from a general perspective, the new method is awesome- not only does it make parties smaller and easier for chapters to manage (there may be some disagreement with me on this part, esp. from larger campuses), it also gives a PNM more realistic choices throughout the recruitment process and keeps a larger percentage of PNMs in the process longer. We saw a lot of great results from it last year, though some of our chapters were hesitant and worried with their release numbers. In the end, 5 of the 6 chapters ended up making quota (4 of them with QAs) and the one that didn't make it was only off by 2 members. It was the best turnout in terms of chapters making quota (and getting close to it) that our campus has had in at least 10 years.

I would love to hear the "new release figure method" from a greek/panhellenic advisor point of view. (I am a recruitment advisor) - AND I AM TOTALLY biased for ADPi - so I can only visualize - any rules - from my chapters or my sororities point of view.

panhellenically yours
connie

[AOE-7]

I'm trying to determine how likely it is that an organization would be allowed to extend bids over quota. Also, since total is say, 45, and a chapter goes into recruitment with 34, if quota is 10, then realistically, they MOST amount of bids they would be allowed to give out, is quota plus 1, right?

My understanding, is that each PNMs name is called alphabetically, with her first choice. If she is on the first bid list, for that chapter, it's a match. If she's on the second bid list for her first choice chapter, she gets put aside, right? And then once all the names are gone through, the names that had been put aside are gone through again, if she has moved up to the first bid list due to a previous PNMs matching with another chapter, then it's a match. If she's still not on the first bid list of the chapter she lists first by the time that chapter reaches quota, then her second choice, if they've not yet made quota themselves, and if she's on their first bid list, will extend her a bid, correct? But if she's not on the first bid list of her second choice at that point, and her second choice has not made quota - will they still extend her a bid, or will her first choice still be allowed to extend her a bid? And even if the PNM suicides, if she was not on their first bid list, they would not be allowed to extend her a bid, would they? Because she didnt maximize her options....(unless she was only invited to their party...and then she maximized her options, so they could give her a bid)?

Help!

[jwright25]

Originally Posted by AOE-7

I'm trying to determine how likely it is that an organization would be allowed to extend bids over quota. Also, since total is say, 45, and a chapter goes into recruitment with 34, if quota is 10, then realistically, they MOST amount of bids they would be allowed to give out, is quota plus 1, right?

Yes and No. You have to be careful here. Quota and Total have nothing to do with each other. Quota is a term that applies ONLY to formal recruitment. It is not set based on Total in any way. A chapter can go over Total during formal recruitment by taking Quota. So in your example, if the chapter is at 34, Total is 45, but Quota is 20, they can still take all 20 of Quota.

When you say "quota plus 1," that depends on the "plus 1." You may take Quota Additions even if you are already over Total. Remember - Quota is formal recruitment only and has nothing to do with Total.

Now. Let's assume in your example that the chapter at 34 took Quota of 10 during formal recruitment. After FR, they are still 1 under Total. So they may COR that last open spot to get to Total of 45. That last spot can be filled by anyone regardless of whether or not she participated in FR. But if your "plus 1" was a Quota Addition obtained during FR bid matching, then the chapter is at Total and done recruiting.

Originally Posted by AOE-7

My understanding, is that each PNMs name is called alphabetically, with her first choice. If she is on the first bid list, for that chapter, it's a match. If she's on the second bid list for her first choice chapter, she gets put aside, right?

Right

Originally Posted by AOE-7

And then once all the names are gone through, the names that had been put aside are gone through again, if she has moved up to the first bid list due to a previous PNMs matching with another chapter, then it's a match. If she's still not on the first bid list of the chapter she lists first by the time that chapter reaches quota, then her second choice, if they've not yet made quota themselves, and if she's on their first bid list, will extend her a bid, correct?

Correct.

Originally Posted by AOE-7

But if she's not on the first bid list of her second choice at that point, and her second choice has not made quota - will they still extend her a bid, or will her first choice still be allowed to extend her a bid?

The names of unmatched PNMs and their preferences will continue to be called until all chapters either make Quota or run out of names on their bid list. So this second choice chapter will either match to Quota before this PNM moves up to their first bid list, or she will match to them. If everyone matches to Quota before the PNM gets placed, she will be available for Quota Additions.

Quota Additions are placed depending on pre-recruitment chapter size, the PNM's preference, where she ranked on each chapter's bid list, etc.

Originally Posted by AOE-7

And even if the PNM suicides, if she was not on their first bid list, they would not be allowed to extend her a bid, would they? Because she didnt maximize her options....(unless she was only invited to their party...and then she maximized her options, so they could give her a bid)?

You are correct. If a PNM has two Preference party invitations yet ranks only one of those chapters on her MRABA, then she will match ONLY if she is on that chapter's first bid list. And of course that first bid list changes throughout the process. So if chapter ABC lists the suiciding PNM as #5 on their B list, but 5 women on their A list match to XYZ chapter, then 1-5 on the B list move up to A. So she will match.

If a PNM has only one Preference party invitation, she can only list that one chapter on her MRABA, so as long as that chapter does what they are supposed to do and lists her on their bid list, she should match.

[AOE-7]

Originally Posted by jwright25

You are correct. If a PNM has two Preference party invitations yet ranks only one of those chapters on her MRABA, then she will match ONLY if she is on that chapter's first bid list. And of course that first bid list changes throughout the process. So if chapter ABC lists the suiciding PNM as #5 on their B list, but 5 women on their A list match to XYZ chapter, then 1-5 on the B list move up to A. So she will match.

If a PNM has only one Preference party invitation, she can only list that one chapter on her MRABA, so as long as that chapter does what they are supposed to do and lists her on their bid list, she should match.

Awesome! Thank you so much!!!!

Now...in the SIP example above - PNM suicided, but she was not on the chapters first bid list and they had already made quota...if that chapter was NOT at or above total at the end of FR....would they be allowed to snap bid, or COB her? Or, since that chapter is still below total, even though they are at Quota, would this be considered a snap bid?

My campus panhellenic is VERY young....we're finally getting our crap together this year.

[jwright25]

Originally Posted by AOE-7

Awesome! Thank you so much!!!!

Now...in the SIP example above - PNM suicided, but she was not on the chapters first bid list and they had already made quota...if that chapter was NOT at or above total at the end of FR....would they be allowed to snap bid, or COB her? Or, since that chapter is still below total, even though they are at Quota, would this be considered a snap bid?

My campus panhellenic is VERY young....we're finally getting our crap together this year.

If that chapter was still below Total, they could COR her. Here's another difference in terminology. Snap Bidding goes along with formal recruitment only. If a chapter does not make Quota during FR, they may offer snap bids to any PNM who attended at least one round of FR and then was either released or dropped out or unmatched after bid matching. Snap bidding is only to fill spots in QUOTA. Snap bidding only takes place between bid matching and Bid Day Ceremony.

Continuous Recruitment (sometimes Continuous OPEN Recruitment - COR) is done outside of the formal recruitment window. It can be used to fill vacancies in Quota (if the chapter did not match or snap to Quota) or to fill vacancies in Total. CR begins after Panhellenic Bid Day Ceremonies are over.

So the PNM who ISP'ed (Intentional Single Preference / suicide) but did not match to her choice is available to be snap bidded to any chapter who did not make Quota. If she does not accept a snap bid, she is then eligible for a COR bid to any chapter that did not make Quota or is not at Total.

** Personal Opinion note here: If this situation is rampant within a Panhellenic, it would be in that Panhellenic's best interest to review Total. If most chapters are still below Total even after the conclusion of FR, it becomes a breeding ground for dirty rushing. Chapters could tell a PNM to suicide, then if she doesn't match, she can be picked up through COR after recruitment. Bad Bad Bad.

[AOE-7]

Originally Posted by jwright25

** Personal Opinion note here: If this situation is rampant within a Panhellenic, it would be in that Panhellenic's best interest to review Total. If most chapters are still below Total even after the conclusion of FR, it becomes a breeding ground for dirty rushing. Chapters could tell a PNM to suicide, then if she doesn't match, she can be picked up through COR after recruitment. Bad Bad Bad.

Well, the chapter who is our biggest competitor on campus got quota (and above total) with FR, which is good. However, they dropped ALOT of PNMs before pref, and told those girls: "Dont worry, we'll snap bid you." 2 of those girls came to our pref parties and signed their bid card with our chapter on it, but have not yet accepted. One of those girls is hacked off at the 1 year rule, but it's not our fault that their chapter didnt invite her to pref, and then toyed with her by saying "we'll snap bid you." This happened AFTER pref parties were over and before bid day, so of course, that PNM did not accept our bid on bid day. THAT is what ticks me off...she signed our card, ready to accept our bid, then she got mixed signals from someone in their chapter telling her "you can still be one of us...dont accept their bid"...So, since her best friend is in the other sorority, she hung out on the sidelines and watched them in their bid day festivities.

Whatever...I guess if she wants to follow them around like a lost little puppy dog for a year, hoping she can get in next year, that's her choice. She looked ridiculous though. It probably never occurred to her that they didnt invite her to pref for a reason. What chapter is going to be stupid enough to cut a girl during FR, if they REALLY wanted her, especially if they are going to be above total? Sounds to me like she doesnt get the hint. I wonder if she invited herself to bid night....ya know, since her best friend is in that sorority, so she would be automatically invited to hang out anyway?

Maybe I should but this story in the stupid PNM thread.