Italian nun shot dead by Somali gunmen

[mulattogyrl]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Where are the moderate Muslims here? You'd think that if they were so against these acts of violence that they'd hold some counter-demonstrations, or things of that nature. Any GC Muslims want to weigh in on this?

There are Muslims that did accept the apology. It's acceptable to me. That's all I can say though, I can't speak for all Muslims.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by mulattogyrl

There are Muslims that did accept the apology. It's acceptable to me. That's all I can say though, I can't speak for all Muslims.

Could you perhaps explain why there are no counter-demonstrations sending a message such as "Stop embarassing us you jackasses" to the extremists? Is it because moderates are not really organized? Or is it because moderates fear retribution themselves?

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Could you perhaps explain why there are no counter-demonstrations sending a message such as "Stop embarassing us you jackasses" to the extremists? Is it because moderates are not really organized? Or is it because moderates fear retribution themselves?

I suspect the organization. That and moderates don't tend to believe that demonstrations DO anything. I base this off my experience as a moderate watching my more liberal and conservative friends protest the war in Iraq and/or set up a table across from the protest saying "support our troops" Neither side made a damn bit of difference about the other sides feelings, or the moderates in the middle.

Standing up and saying "stop" is just getting attention and will not likely "stop" anyone

[OtterXO]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Could you perhaps explain why there are no counter-demonstrations sending a message such as "Stop embarassing us you jackasses" to the extremists? Is it because moderates are not really organized? Or is it because moderates fear retribution themselves?

I'm not muslim, however, I think your last statement probably hits the nail on the head. In my mind, if I were a muslim who disagreed with the extremists I would probably want to fly under the radar. Making myself a target of crazy extremists wouldn't seem like a really good (or safe) choice. Just my opinion though.

Edited to add: I'm not sure if "moderate" is the right word to be using. I think someone could be very religious without being violent. Just a thought

[mulattogyrl]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Could you perhaps explain why there are no counter-demonstrations sending a message such as "Stop embarassing us you jackasses" to the extremists?

No. The other GCers did a pretty good job though.

[KSig RC]

Wait - do Christian groups really get 'outspoken' or hold marches, etc. when a Christian radical does something ridiculous?

Were there marches and letters and massive anti-radical movements when, say, a radical Christian shot an abortion doctor? Did I somehow miss rallies decrying IRA violence?

I'm not even trying to compare apples-to-apples, but I wonder if we're asking something of the Muslim community that we've really seen before - or is Kevin's point that this requires more than what's been seen in the past?

I guess my question could be simplified to:
Are we holding mainstream Muslims to a higher standard when we ask what they are doing to counteract crimes by radicals?

[OtterXO]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

I guess my question could be simplified to:
Are we holding mainstream Muslims to a higher standard when we ask what they are doing to counteract crimes by radicals?

I think that by expecting them to protest the actions of the "extremists" it is definitely holding them to a higher standard than we hold any other group. With regards to your Christian radical comparison, that's very interesting...I never really made that connection before. I assume that the rest of the world would be able to see that the actions of a radical are not those which speak for the entire Christian community. As a result I wouldn't think it would be necessary for the mainstream to protest. It's interesting that mainstream Muslims don't get the same sort of assumption in their favor.

[Tom Earp]

Maybe protesting is fine but when did Allah give the right to kill?

If this Pope quoted something from the Crusades and it was a big deal, why would He do that anyway?

Defying The Crazies of any Religious Fanatics is rightous.

Killing in the name of Allah is against any teaching isn't it?

[Kevin]

I think I'd expect a different reaction from mainstream Christianity if extremism, killing, terrorism, etc. began to be accepted more generally as proper Christian things to do. I don't think the two are really comparable.

The IRA was/is more a nationalist movement than a religious one, so I don't really think that's an on-point comparison.

[OtterXO]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I think I'd expect a different reaction from mainstream Christianity if extremism, killing, terrorism, etc. began to be accepted more generally as proper Christian things to do. I don't think the two are really comparable.

I guess it depends on where you're coming from. The Muslims I know don't accept extremism, killing or terrorism as "proper" and I don't think that a majority of the Muslims in the world do either.

[RACooper]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I think I'd expect a different reaction from mainstream Christianity if extremism, killing, terrorism, etc. began to be accepted more generally as proper Christian things to do. I don't think the two are really comparable.

Rather I think it's because the Christian world accepts and understands that there are a myriad of different interpretations and denominations under the "Christian" umbrella - so it it is much easier for us to dismiss extreme or radical elements as just that, elements not representatives of a monolithic faith. If we understood, or viewed Islam in the same light, then we can understand how a) the Popes words are seen as a statement representative of Christianity by Muslims, and b) the more varied reaction to the statements - I see the lack of those protesting as more impactful than those protesting...

The IRA was/is more a nationalist movement than a religious one, so I don't really think that's an on-point comparison.

Your just deluding yourself if you believe this... afterall how many IRA terrorists where Non-Catholics? The IRA selected targets based on faith, and made retaliation killings based of faith - so why not label them a religious terrorist organisation?


PS> Does anyone else see it as incredibly hypocritical to quote from a Crusade-era text decrying violence in the name of Islam, or the spreading of faith by the sword?

[Scandia]

That's just plain insane and ridiculous.

It is bad enough when they punish the group for the transgressions of one of its individuals. But this is beyond evil.

[mulattogyrl]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Are we holding mainstream Muslims to a higher standard

YES.