An SEC rush

[_Lisa_]

Originally Posted by OTW

There's a thread here somewhere about whether or not NMs are allowed to wear letters.

I've heard of situations where chapters tell their NMs they can't wear letters even though their HQs allow it. They call it "tradition," or whatever. I just don't get it. If HQ encourages NMs to wear the letters, why go against it?

[/threadjack]

Sigma Kappa HQ says that not allowing new members to wear their letters is hazing.

[KDMafia]

Just my two cents...Kappa Delta allows new members to wear anything except for the crest. However, most of our girls WANT to wait to wear letters and the actives like that. The girls want to know what they're wearing and like the idea of waiting for it. At the first new member meeting we tell them that they can wear the letters if they want but a lot of girls prefer to wait. Also if they do wear the stitched letters they would have to buy or make them themselves since no actives will give them any until initiation. They usually just receive shirts with Kappa Delta written out for the letters screen printed on there.


Also the previous poster didn't say her friend Couldn't wear ZTA stuff, she said she didn't....maybe she wanted to wait or maybe waiting was encouraged.

[FSUZeta]

well, if zetas were encouraged to wait to wear letters, i would like to talk to that chapter and let them know that it could be considered hazing. it is not a tradition of the national sorority.

[UGAalum94]

but simply personally, it seems to me that to say not being allowed to wear letters until you are officially initiated is FINE.

Are uninitiated new members (in the groups that feel that restricting the wearing of letters) also allowed to attend chapter? vote on membership? represent the group at panhellenic? Do new members of these groups basically get full membership when they get their bids?

Don't get me wrong, I am not some throw back who wants to see pledges tortured to prove their loyalty or publicly embarassed to earn their status.

Hazing is wrong. But is requiring people to be initiated before they wear all the symbols of the group REALLY hazing?

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

but simply personally, it seems to me that to say not being allowed to wear letters until you are officially initiated is FINE.

Are uninitiated new members (in the groups that feel that restricting the wearing of letters) also allowed to attend chapter? vote on membership? represent the group at panhellenic? Do new members of these groups basically get full membership when they get their bids?

Don't get me wrong, I am not some throw back who wants to see pledges tortured to prove their loyalty or publicly embarassed to earn their status.

Hazing is wrong. But is requiring people to be initiated before they wear all the symbols of the group REALLY hazing?

I think the issue here isn't whether or not it's okay to wear letters prior to initiation. If NMs are allowed to wear em, great. In NMs aren't allowed to wear em till after initiation, that's great too.

The concern lies with chapters who who go against their HQ's rules regarding wearing letters. What gives the chapters the right to do something like that?

[UGAalum94]

I can see the issue of not following directions of nationals as problematic too.

But the idea that some national groups may have defined hazing to include not permitting non-initiated new members to wear letters (which the post above mine indicated,) seems goofy to me.

The wording was "encouraging new members to wait could be considered hazing," I believe.

"Encouraging new members to wait may not be national policy" AND "encouraging new members to wait could be considered hazing" are two separate issues. The second, in my opinion, is crazy.

At the point when waiting to wear letters is hazing, we may actually be inviting people not to take ending hazing seriously

[Tippiechick]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

but simply personally, it seems to me that to say not being allowed to wear letters until you are officially initiated is FINE.

Are uninitiated new members (in the groups that feel that restricting the wearing of letters) also allowed to attend chapter?
Hazing is wrong. But is requiring people to be initiated before they wear all the symbols of the group REALLY hazing?

Now, I don't think you are really asking people on here if NM are allowed to vote on membership. Why? Because, I am sure you know that membership selection is confidential.

No one said that hazing was not allowing a NM to wear ANY symbols or letters or sorority names, etc. Each group has different policies. What is being talked about here is when a chapter goes against NATIONAL policy.

Personally, I do think that a woman should be a member before wearing items that she does not know the meaning behind. But, again, for each group that will differ.

[FSUZeta]

i said that it is not a tradition of the national organization to prohibit new members from wearing letters. you misquoted me, alphagamuga.

and i DO see a problem when zeta chapters start their own "traditions" that go against national policy. it does not matter to me what the policy is for other sororites-that is their business, and i am not going to pass judgement on their decisions.

i am from the old school where we rushed, and we pledged a sorority. we were pledges for an entire quarter, went home for christmas, came back in january, and if we got good grades, we got initiated. as pledges, we had to learn the "actives"(initiated members) hometowns and majors, and we had wooden crowns that we had to get every active to sign. this is now considered hazing. i did not look at it as such.

on a very elementary level, hazing could be anything that new members have to do, that initiated members do not. so theoretically, not allowing new members to wear letters, while initiated members can wear them, could be interpreted as hazing, should someone want to push the envelope.

and by the way, zeta new members DO attend chapter meetings-something we pledges did not do until after initiation.

[Tippiechick]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

and by the way, zeta new members DO attend chapter meetings-something we pledges did not do until after initiation.

Yes, I can vouch for that. I attended meetings as a NM in '98.

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

Are uninitiated new members (in the groups that feel that restricting the wearing of letters) also allowed to attend chapter? vote on membership? represent the group at panhellenic? Do new members of these groups basically get full membership when they get their bids?

I just wanted to add that when I became an Alpha Gam new member a few years ago ('99), we were allowed to attend chapter meetings after the initiated members completed Ritual.

[BamaDad DZ]

I believe my daughter mentioned that she can't wear the Greek symbols for Delta Zeta until after she finishes her pledge period. Is that right? I personally think DZ pledges should wear cowboy boots with Hawaiian shirts with mini skirts (just so I could get her picture and bronze it, of course).

Originally Posted by BamaDad DZ

I believe my daughter mentioned that she can't wear the Greek symbols for Delta Zeta until after she finishes her pledge period. Is that right? I personally think DZ pledges should wear cowboy boots with Hawaiian shirts with mini skirts (just so I could get her picture and bronze it, of course).

[hijack]

FYI, technically they're not Hawaiian shirts. I've heard of aloha-print, tropical, or even island...but please don't call them Hawaiian. Thanks.
[/hijack]

[Deltazeta4ever]

Delta Zeta new members can wear our greek letters... they just can't wear the Crest. I, certainly, was proud to sport our letters on my bid day!!

[UGAalum94]

Please re-read your 4:48 post, and I think you'll see that I wasn't misquoting or at least misrepresenting what was written there. Certainly, it was not my intention to do so.

I can see by your expanded answer in your later post that you're working with a "anything new members are required to do (and I assume restricted from doing) that full members are not could be considered hazing" definition of hazing, which in general, provides good guidance. However, when too many "harmless" traditions are included in the definition of hazing, I think people get too casual in their attitudes about serious hazing. I want to make clear that I am not speaking for my group at all. These are my opinions and are in likely direct conflict with the attitudes of my national group

My group has always let new members wear letters as far as I know, and according to a private message I received lets them attend chapter although we didn't do that when I was in school.

It seems to me that there are times when matters like wearing of letters before initiation could be left up to individual chapters to decide without it being hazing.

[twinkle555]

Originally Posted by jessXIca

As a new member of Alpha Xi Delta, I am allowed to wear "Alpha Xi Delta" on anything I want, and the Greek letters on it as well as long as they are not "double stitched" i.e as they are on a jersey. We also attend about 90% of every chapter meeting- for a portion we have to sit out in the hall.

Just off the top of my head, I've seen new members of Tri-Delt, ZTA, and Chi Omega wearing actual screened letters on shirts and bags that were given to them on Bid Day. The only sorority on UCF's campus that I know of that apparently does not allow new members to wear the actual Greek letters is Kappa Alpha Theta: they wear "Theta" on their shirts rather than the letters. I've been told members of Kappa Alpha Theta cannot wear letters until they're initiated, someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

For fraternities, I only noticed three: Theta Chi gave new members shirts with the letters on them as soon as they accepted bids, but Phi Delt and Beta's shirts for the new members had the names written out. Don't know if that applies to the rule or if that was just the shirt design chosen.

the more i read this thread the more im starting to think perhaps my friend just didnt feel comfortable/ready/right wearing her letters til after being intiatied (i dont know why she would feel that way...i LOVE wearing my letters and i just became a pledge last night!). from what i have seen since bid day, the zetas have shirts that say zeta, but have bags with the letters.