Minimum Wage

RU OX Alum · #1 08-18-2006, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticCat81

I'm not so sure that its a completely different conversation. So much of this thread deals in the black and white, as though the situation is either A or Z. As is often the case, reality may be somewhere in the middle.

No, addiction is not a choice per se, and yes, it is a form of disease. But it is a disease that often has at least some roots in choices. People make a choice whether to use drugs or not. If they choose to use drugs despite the risks that come with that use, then that is their choice. Sometimes, choosing to remain addicted rather than seeking help is a choice as well. The reality of addiction and recovery from addiction includes personal responsibility, although that is certainly not all of it.

As for the minimum wage, I doubt anyone here would disagree that someone willing and able to work should be able to find work that provides payment that is fair and adequate to meet basic needs. It's easy to agree that far. But lots of people of all political and philosophical stripes can and do disagree as to whether a mandatory minimum wage helps achieve that goal or hinders achieving it. I don't know the answer, but my guess that whether minimum wage is the right answer is somewhere between a flat out "yes" and "no," and that it is mixed in with issues of personal responsibility and a variety of competing societal interests.

Not everyone has the choice to start though. The substance I was addicted to was forced upon me. I was 8. I had no choice, not really.

I chose to stop taking adderal in April 2005. It damn near killed me, and I still don't think I'm all the way better.

GeekyPenguin · #2 08-18-2006, 02:35 PM

I think the thing that bothers me is a point somebody else raised earlier in the thread - it's not the small business owners who pay minimum wage, it's the Wal-Marts and other larger stores. Do I think that's right? No. Is it a legal business practice in America? Yes.

Drolefille · #3 08-18-2006, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeekyPenguin

I think the thing that bothers me is a point somebody else raised earlier in the thread - it's not the small business owners who pay minimum wage, it's the Wal-Marts and other larger stores. Do I think that's right? No. Is it a legal business practice in America? Yes.

Actually in my experience it's been the other way around. I worked at a locally owned "department" store that sells everything from office supplies to wicker furniture, toys, books and gifts. Every person who worked there except for the owner would have made more money working at walmart.

(I worked there for 3 years and made minimum the entire time until minimum wage in Illinois went up.)

Most small businesses don't have the same guaranteed raises/benefits etc.

shinerbock · #4 08-18-2006, 04:19 PM

On another note regarding the homeless...the shelters I've worked in had a different priority system...I imagine it would at some point come down to man v. mom and kids, but whenever I've seen it in practice its been regarding the actions of a person. For example (I've seen this a couple times) if a guy shows up smelling like booze, he'll often get turned away. Likewise, if the person who runs the shelter saw the person sitting on the corner all day, they're likely to get turned away as well. Of course, this experience has always been in Christian shelters where staying clean and looking for a job is a requirement if you want to stay in the shelter.

MysticCat · #5 08-18-2006, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

Not everyone has the choice to start though. The substance I was addicted to was forced upon me. I was 8. I had no choice, not really.

I chose to stop taking adderal in April 2005. It damn near killed me, and I still don't think I'm all the way better.

True. That's why I said "often." (It's also a good example of how hard if not impossible it is for any of us to ignore our personal experiences in conversations such as this.)

I'm really sorry you had such a time with Adderal. We took our 8-year-old off it after 3 months. We were seeing really disturbing side effects. By the time we were calling the doctor about it, he was begging us not to make him take it anymore. When we told him we had talked with his doctor and that she agreed with us that he should stop taking it immediately, he thanked us. "I haven't felt good since my birthday," he told us. (He had started taking it a week or two before his birthday.) Pretty nerve-wracking.[/sidetrack]

RU OX Alum · #6 08-18-2006, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticCat81

True. That's why I said "often." (It's also a good example of how hard if not impossible it is for any of us to ignore our personal experiences in conversations such as this.)

Yeah, I'll try to be more objective.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticCat81

I'm really sorry you had such a time with Adderal. We took our 8-year-old off it after 3 months. We were seeing really disturbing side effects. By the time we were calling the doctor about it, he was begging us not to make him take it anymore. When we told him we had talked with his doctor and that she agreed with us that he should stop taking it immediately, he thanked us. "I haven't felt good since my birthday," he told us. (He had started taking it a week or two before his birthday.) Pretty nerve-wracking.[/sidetrack]

I'm sorry your son had to go through that. I hope he gets better, but be prepaired, as I'm still having side affects. Although I was on it for several compared to just a few months, please allow for recovery time.

There are several non-druged up options for the little ones with ADHD/whatever your son has (I have ADHD and some other stuff). Regular exerise is key. Like, almost every single day regular, helps me. Also, since he's this young, now would be a good time to teach him orginizatinal skills, etc. They're vital. I think I'm starting to tell you how to be a parent now, so I'll stop.

But seriously, if you ever have any qeustions, I've been there and will be glad to answer.

MysticCat · #7 08-18-2006, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

Yeah, I'll try to be more objective.

I'm sorry your son had to go through that. I hope he gets better, but be prepaired, as I'm still having side affects. Although I was on it for several compared to just a few months, please allow for recovery time.

There are several non-druged up options for the little ones with ADHD/whatever your son has (I have ADHD and some other stuff). Regular exerise is key. Like, almost every single day regular, helps me. Also, since he's this young, now would be a good time to teach him orginizatinal skills, etc. They're vital. I think I'm starting to tell you how to be a parent now, so I'll stop.

But seriously, if you ever have any qeustions, I've been there and will be glad to answer.

Thanks. I apprectiate it and will remember that.

As for being objective, that's overrated sometimes I think. Few of us will ever really achieve that. I think we're better off acknowledging and understanding our biases, and understanding how our experiences, as well as those of others we may or may not agree with, have shaped our thinking.