Cover Causes Controversy

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

Understandable, but that's why I admitted I had no experience and asked the question. I know it's a natural thing, but if someone were doing it around me and I knew, I'd feel really uncomfortable.

This is just an innocent question, but what about pumps and bottling it? Don't alot of working mothers who BF do that?

I do have experience in this area and I agree with you, Phyllis. There is no reason to do it in public. Most infants eat every other hour when they are like 3 weeks old and they really don't need to be going out anywhere at that age anyway. I scheduled errands around their feeding times without them. I also cleaned myself off before and after. My kids didn't play on the floor until they were older and then, it was on blankets or in the play pen, not on the floor itself. At the age where they are nursing that often, they aren't playing at all. They are swinging, eating, sleeping and being held. Once they are mobile, they can wait a half hour until you get somewhere private to feed them. Perhaps more private nursing lounges in our society would be appropriate because it truly is disgusting to go into a bathroom to nurse. I hated when people came over to see the baby when they were really little because I spent most of my time in another room feeding them. To me, it's a private thing to be done in private.

Every working mother I know who nursed also pumped and put it in bottles and it didn't deter the baby from taking the breast again at all. They even gave my babies sugar water in a bottle in the hospital and it didn't affect their ability to latch on or nurse. I hear that argument all the time, but have never seen it happen.

Within about 6 weeks, most babies are eating every 3 to 4 hours and you can definitely plan around that. I didn't feed my kids babyfood, bottles, etc in public either. There was no reason to. My schedule revolved around their schedule. Within 6 months, they're starting on food.

I would have never felt comfortable nursing in public and don't wish to see others doing so. That said, I have no problem with the cover of that magazine. It shows nothing and is appropriate for the audience of the magazine.

Just my opinion.

[Jimmy Choo]

Originally Posted by AGDee

I do have experience in this area and I agree with you, Phyllis. There is no reason to do it in public. Perhaps more private nursing lounges in our society would be appropriate because it truly is disgusting to go into a bathroom to nurse. I hated when people came over to see the baby when they were really little because I spent most of my time in another room feeding them. To me, it's a private thing to be done in private.

Private nursing lounges are a catch-22 situation for businesses, etc. I worked in the retail sector for years. Most of that was in kids and baby retail. To be a truly baby friendly store I feel you need a nice, clean nursing lounge. Unfortunatly due to law, I was unable to tell mothers about it. Even though my store had one. I could only offer it if asked. Stores want to please their customers but they also want to make money. It doesn't make economical sense for them to invest in the extra space in their stores that they could use for clothing, etc. if they can't tell mothers about that service.

I too think it should be private. It's my time to bond with my child in a way that only I can. They are only a baby for so long.

That's just my two cents on the issue....

[Rollergirl2001]

I would not breastfeed my future children in public, because I don't want to get caught, but I will breastfeed my children. My mother had never breastfed me or my sister.

[Scandia]

Why is it against the law to tell people about the nursing lounge?

[Jimmy Choo]

Originally Posted by Scandia

Why is it against the law to tell people about the nursing lounge?

It could be interpreted as not allowing a mom to feed in public. So to protect the mom's right to feed and to ensure businesses don't do something that could get them sued, you can not offer the room unless you are asked.

[Scandia]

But it can be shown as an option, not a requirement.

Also, in some establishments, it is harder to nurse in the public area. Say, Wal-Mart or Target may not really have seats where you can comfortably sit down and nurse a baby in peace.

I have seen women do it in audiences at a library program. They did it so discretely that at first I could not tell- especially when the lights were dimmed.

[Jimmy Choo]

Originally Posted by Scandia

But it can be shown as an option, not a requirement.

Also, in some establishments, it is harder to nurse in the public area. Say, Wal-Mart or Target may not really have seats where you can comfortably sit down and nurse a baby in peace.

Even showing it as an option can be offense to some people. The only reason that I know about this at all comes from personally experience. Once I offered our lounge to a mother. She was thrilled that we had one and I thought everything was fine. My boss overheard and was livid with me. That was when I found out it was law b/c by offering that to someone who did ask for it it can be perceived that I am denying her her public right to breastfeed. While I may not personally agree with that law I have to abide by it. I do see the reasoning and logic behind it. Just b/c I asked the lady "Would you like to use our lounge so you can sit down?" another establishment with less tact could say "We have a lounge and a highly recommend you go use." While both are offers, one clearly is not an "offer" if you catch my drift. In the example I gave the woman could have turned around and fussed at me thinking I was trying to publicly shun her. I got lucky.

[Taualumna]

Originally Posted by ecupidelta

It could be interpreted as not allowing a mom to feed in public. So to protect the mom's right to feed and to ensure businesses don't do something that could get them sued, you can not offer the room unless you are asked.

What about a no (outside) food/drink policy? It works well for non-babies. Seriously though, I think moms should lighten up. If you (as an adult) don't eat everywhere, then neither should a baby. Besides, some believe that it isn't proper to eat anywhere other than in proper dining places.

When I was a baby, my mother was asked to feed me outside of the restaurant because she brought in outside food. She was a tad upset, but she didn't speak with management or anything like that.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by Taualumna

What about a no (outside) food/drink policy? It works well for non-babies. Seriously though, I think moms should lighten up. If you (as an adult) don't eat everywhere, then neither should a baby. Besides, some believe that it isn't proper to eat anywhere other than in proper dining places.

When I was a baby, my mother was asked to feed me outside of the restaurant because she brought in outside food. She was a tad upset, but she didn't speak with management or anything like that.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by Taualumna

What about a no (outside) food/drink policy? It works well for non-babies. Seriously though, I think moms should lighten up. If you (as an adult) don't eat everywhere, then neither should a baby. Besides, some believe that it isn't proper to eat anywhere other than in proper dining places.

When I was a baby, my mother was asked to feed me outside of the restaurant because she brought in outside food. She was a tad upset, but she didn't speak with management or anything like that.

Hi...you're a grown woman, and if you don't eat you might get cranky (more then ususal), but you don't scream and cry (well, maybe you do, I don't know). Babies do. They're not adults for a reason (even if they may be taller then you). Babies don't care about proper, and they don't care where you are. They just know they're hungry, and are going to scream until that is fixed. A newborn can eat every 1-2 hours, and life doesn't stop because you have a baby.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by AGDee

Every working mother I know who nursed also pumped and put it in bottles and it didn't deter the baby from taking the breast again at all. They even gave my babies sugar water in a bottle in the hospital and it didn't affect their ability to latch on or nurse. I hear that argument all the time, but have never seen it happen.

That's interesting because I've never seen it work. Yet another example for me is my friend who has an eight month old who had been breastfeeding from the start. The father got very insistent about being able to feed her so the mother allowed him to give the baby breastmilk in a bottle. It created a lot of work for her because pumping is so difficult. But, she consented. They did that for a few weeks but after a short time, the baby wouldn't nurse anymore. The mother is heartbroken.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

That's interesting because I've never seen it work. Yet another example for me is my friend who has an eight month old who had been breastfeeding from the start. The father got very insistent about being able to feed her so the mother allowed him to give the baby breastmilk in a bottle. It created a lot of work for her because pumping is so difficult. But, she consented. They did that for a few weeks but after a short time, the baby wouldn't nurse anymore. The mother is heartbroken.

Maybe it worked ok because they switched up back and forth from day one? I can't say for sure. The experts do say that it can make the baby lazy, I just dont know anybody who has experienced that. By 8 months, my kids were drinking out of sippy cups and eating food though! There were still some bottles, but it was much less frequent (like bed time only, I think.. but it's been a long time now). Even with introducing foods, the "experts" change their minds every few years and recommend something new. Maybe the type of nipple used has something to do with it too.. I dunno!

[ZTAMiami]

Oh boy! I had to come out of lurkdom for this one!

I am very impressed by some of the responses on here

The AAP recommends babies be exclusively breastfed for 6 months (that means no water, formula, cereal or baby food) and continue to be breastfed for a minimum of 1 year. There is no maximum. Breastmilk never loses nutritional value. AAP statement http://aappolicy.aappublications.org...rics;115/2/496

The WHO recommends a minimum of 2 years. http://www.who.int/nutrition/topics/.../en/index.html

The teeth argument doesn't cut it. Some babies get their first tooth at 3 months, some at 1 year. Having teeth doesn't mean babies stop sucking and start biting.

Teeth are also not a sign of readiness for the intro of solid food. Most babies do not lose their tongue thrust reflex until about 6 months. Some take longer. This is a natural protective measure to keep anything but a nipple out of their mouths. Solid food is not meant as a replacement for breastmilk. Baby food is nutritionally deficient compared to breastmilk, or formula for that matter. The point is to introduce different tastes and textures. Into the second year of life breastmilk actually becomes fattier. Here is the nutritional breakdown:http://www.kellymom.com/bf/bfextended/ebf-benefits.html

Mothers who are exclusively breastfeeding often do not introduce any artificial nipples in order to avoid nipple preference or confusion. This can lead to a bad latch or refusal to nurse. Some babies can switch easily back and forth but many can't. Many breasfed babies will not take a bottle from their mother, but will for someone else. When you are so close to the source why would you take it from a bottle?! Even if a mother did this to avoid nursing in public, she would need to express her milk at the same time her baby would be hungry. Otherwise you are asking for mastitis or a decrease in supply.

As someone else said, a pump can never extract the amount of milk that a baby can. Some women have a very abundant supply, but "clam up" with a pump.

As for discretion.....has anyone here seen a woman take her shirt and bra off to nurse? You see more belly chunk from a nursing mama than you see breast. You might get a flash of nipple in the 2 seconds it takes to latch a baby on. The entire nipple and most of the areola are in baby's mouth when nursing. I see breasts used to sell clothing, beer, cars all the time. When they are used to feed a child people freak out.

A babies needs come first. Even a one year old cannot understand that they need to wait a few minutes for mommy to get to a private area. A sippy cup does no good, as its not a source of comfort like a mother's breast is. Also realise that a newborn needs to nurse about 10x+ a day. Some 1 year olds even nurse that often. This is called feeding on demand or following babies hunger cues. Scheduling a breastfed baby often leads to low supply as well as an unhappy baby.

I was never one for a "mothers" room as many of them come equipped with a changing table and a nasty smelly trashcan. I do think its a nice option to have though, as some older babies are very distracted nursers.

Here is my personal experience:
I had an unplanned and unecessary c-section with my daughter. I had a hard time latching her on and against my better judgement allowed a few bottle of formulas in the hospital at a nurses urging It took us about 2 weeks to fix our latch because of that and it was a smooth sail from then on. My daughter never took a bottle after that, and didn't show interest in solids until about 10months. At about 1 year old 90% of her nutrional needs were met with breastmilk. At age 2 I'd say about 20%. At this point nursing fills more of an emotional need than a nutrional one. Some babies have blankies, some have mama's breasts. Nursing a toddler quells tantrums, heals booboos, and comforts in a scary or new situation.

My daughter is just about weaned now at almost 3 years old, mostly due to my pregnancy. Many women lose their milk supply do to hormonal changes during pregnancy. I think it was the perfect amount of time for both of us. She is a very spririted and independant toddler. I believe the security I have given her through nursing and the sort of gentle parenting that seems to stem from it have made her so. She is very aware of babies needs when we are in public and often comments that a crying baby needs "leche mami"

Of all the choices I have made in parenting my daughter, breastfeeding is one thing I have never doubted. I know I did the right thing.

My advice to any future mom and dads is to seek support during pregnancy. Don't wait until you have a problem. Remember that doctors have no formal training in human lactation unless they have sought it out on their own. Its not covered in medical school. Also don't listen to advice from women who never breastfed or have had a bad experience. Many moms are out to sabotage other womens breastfeeding experiences due to guilt or anger. Sad but true.

[DeltAlum]

That was a brilliant post.

Mrs. DA was one of the very first lactation consultants, working for a group of OB/GYN's in the Detroit area who founded "The Family Birthing Center" at Providence Hospital in Southfield.

I have listened to her counseling hundreds of young mothers over thousands of hours on the phone.

Breastfeeding works on supply and demand, and when you "supplement," it disturbs that pattern and can cause or exascerbate (sp?) things such as improper latching, positioning, and actually is detrimental to nursing moms who are concerned about alleged low milk supply.

Unfortunately, as you say, medical people are given little or no training in breastfeeding (I had hoped that had changed over the years, but obviously not).

I hope the people will take your experiences to heart.

[Taualumna]

Nursing is best, but you can't do it all the time if you have a full time job. And if your job is demanding, you might need to get back earlier (in Canada, you get up to a year off, but I *PERSONALLY* do not believe in it, as you may lose your chance in a promotion. Mr. Tau was originally hired for a year-long mat contract and was promoted and hired on a permanent basis about five months in. That promotion could have gone to the woman who had the baby!), so how can you nurse for an entire year? If you want your child to have your own milk, you basically have no choice but to pump.