balanced man vs traditional

[raider59]

This fall I will be going through Epsilon rite (full initiation). My observations after a year of new membership:

Things I like about the BMP:
-no hazing = no bodily harm or trips to the ER, no resentment towards actives
-required participation in IMs and community service
-required participation in house officer cabinets
-actives were nice to us and I didn't have to spend half a year being treated like I were less than a person
-The house projects are probably my favorite part of the BMP. Instead of destructive hazing, each of our sigma classes leaves their mark on our house in the form of a constructive project such as chapter tables, lawn repair, etc.

Things I don't:
-the EDGE "leadership program" was an absolute waste of time for me and every sigma from my school that went with me. The only thing it taught me was that people from my school are more well-adjusted than people from other schools.
-The aforementioned holier-than-thou attitude. Sucks.
-On top of that last point... it's become clear that there are a few people in my house who joined SigEp with the mindset that it was more of an honor society than a social fraternity. This is a bullshit attitude and it needs to stop.
-The things we can't do: "responsible" hazing. This fall when I'm fully initiated, I can't half-jokingly bark orders at sigmas to do kegstands or shots while singing the songs (as was done to me) for fear of having our charter pulled. I am told that scavenger hunts, described to me as the most entertaining event of pledgeship, might be off limits. I am not a fan of the zero-tolerance policy.
-The length of time it takes to be fully initiated: more or less twice as long as a traditional pledge period.
-The minimum GPA for recruitment: I understand that we want to stay on top of everyone academically, but you can't tell me that a potential with a 2.7 coming out of high school will wreck our house while a 3.0 guy is the perfect fit.
-Number one problem with the BMP as it applies to my chapter: apathy. The reason I wasn't as close to some of my sigma class as I would have liked is that some of them just flat out didn't show up to shit. They'd appear for parties... and that's all I would see of them. Not even coming to chapter. And we can't do anything about it. We can't kick them out because as per BMP we're not allowed to blackball sigmas. There shouldn't have to be an incentive to show up for house events, but it's a really aggravating situation for me right now.


Well, the cons list looks longer than the pros... but I didn't join SigEp because of the Balanced Man Program. I joined because I saw potential for real friendship in the brothers of the house. I in no way look down upon traditional chapters; rather, I embrace them as brothers, as I hope they would me. BMP or not, you'll find me partying at the house every weekend.

Thanks for reading. Thoughts, comments and suggestions appreciated.

[bryj22]

I have really seen a downfall in the Greek system where I go to school. There is no quality and its just about the partying.Fraternities are supposed to be service oriented as well, giving back the the school where they are given the right to have that organization. I love my school and want to see greek life go through the roof. I wanted to start an organization that is more than just the average greek organization. Yes, partying is an important part of the college experience but why can't you work hard and then play hard. Its all about keeping your responsibilites and being balanced. That is why I feel good about bringing Sig Ep back to Arkansas State, because of the balanced man program. I have been affected by hazing myself on a haze-free campus. It doesn't build brotherhood, it built resentment. I can't say enough how much I dislike the people who drove me through line ups and kidnapped me and made me drink way too much alcohol the night before a test. Its wrong, and the balance man to me looks like away of preserving quality and giving a a group of guys with similar ideals about virtue, dilligence, and brotherly love a place where you can always go and where people who have your back. I know this may be jumbled and incoherant but fraternity to me means family...and if the balanced man brings family and than i am happy to revive Sig Ep on the campus of ASU. We already have a group of 10 guys who see this difference that we need, I hope we are making the right decision.

[TopSider]

BMP sucks. End of story. I have witnessed the true harm this does and this is why we were one of the few chapters to RETURN to traditional after BMP(and this was nationals pulled us). You have no strong ties to your pledge class. There is no reason to commit. Its basically like a club you join, pay money and show up to meetings for. Since there is nothing to go through, there is no reason to stay loyal and dedicated to the frat. I went through hazing and all and I am a loyal, die hard SigEp, however, our reputation around the country sucks b/c of BMP we just let anyone and everyone in and we dont weed these guys out during pledgship. For instane, I met a group od SigEp's traveling through about a year ago, there were 6 of them, 3 were gay. I mean, seriously, is this what my fraternity is becoming across the country? Minorities, Gays, Low class white trash? It sickens me, and I am proud to be a Traditional Chapter and by the grace of God its in the South.

[TopSider]

Additionally, BMP does not encourage young men to fully trust one another by trial and hardship

[moe.ron]

Originally Posted by TopSider

I mean, seriously, is this what my fraternity is becoming across the country? Minorities, Gays, Low class white trash? It sickens me, and I am proud to be a Traditional Chapter and by the grace of God its in the South.

You would hate to meet our chapter, our past alumni board President was gay, tons of minorities, and probably some low class white trash mix in with rugby players, football players, preppies and hippiers. Oh yeah, we're traditional.

Probably would not approve of me wearing the letter, since I'm Asian. Don't worry though, nothing but brotherly love for you.

[traditional1]

I'm third generation sigep. My grandfather was president of his chapter. My dad was in the same chapter and was a Pledge Adviser, hopefully keeping poor pledges from the wrath of the PM. I am now in a different, but still traditional chapter as the screen name implies. "Sigma Phi Kappa" isn't taken, anyone willing to tell nationals that we don't want people calling our house "sigma phi everyone" anymore and we wish them and the BMP the best of luck? "Kappa stands for the knowledge of what it means to have a place in the brotherhood." ~ the new symbolism... While I don't blame any balanced man chapter individually, they simply either didn't have a choice or didn't know better. BMP does accomplish national's goals. It creates huge membership boost and revenue boost, and decreases insurance costs. When nationals decided it was in the brotherhood BUSINESS is when our fraternity got screwed over. The only thing BMP balances is the budget , forsaking our brotherhood. Balanced Man people don't know what it means to be a SigEp... unless they met a pledge master, somehow, who was kind enough to show them. traditional members worked hard for their letters. And I don't care who you recruit, we recruit oddballs and douches all the time, some leave, some make it... many of them are my good friends, but if they don't have to work for it, it degrades the brotherhood. If you're a BM and want to meet a pledge master... me and my pledge class would be more than happy to share ours with you. He was a profound individual who could teach you a lesson just by looking at you, and when we were initiated finally, he was the first to welcome us and tell us the party had started. That is what this fraternity should be.

[Scones]

Traditional,

What you experience is a god-given right, a tradition of pledgeship that has been on this Earth since the first days of man. This brotherhood that you build through your toils and troubles is immeasurable to any BMP. Yet, you can't compare apples to oranges. But they're both still some goddamn fruit.

Yes, BMP is a program that makes nationals look good, and it protects many old asses. Sure, SigEp took the less dangerous road and listened to the growing concerns of today's anti-greek society. But we have had to adapt and change to fit the mold of our ever-growing 'plastic' America. If you want to fix BMP, fix our messed up America first.

But take my words to heart, BROTHERHOOD is not dead at my BMP. It may have a few weak links, it may have men who don't deserve. But I'll be goddamned if I tell you they know what it means to truly be a SigEp.

My BMP brothers earn their understanding, and what they reap they shall sow. That is BMP.

[FL2TXsigep]

CA-Beta got shut down this week. Another traditional chapter with a long storied history bites the dust.

[traditional1]

Originally Posted by Scones

Yet, you can't compare apples to oranges. But they're both still some goddamn fruit.

Sure I can. And I will. If some BM from University of Well Balanced Men tells me he's a BM. That means he learned the grip in his first few weeks of school. That means he knew the ritual at EDGE while I was still a pledge. That means he didn't earn our secrets at all.

I can compare the BMP chapters at EDGE to my pledge class. My pledge class stuck together when they tried to split us up into groups. We left for lunch together when they had split up groups with other chapters for lunch. I remember that as the first time I knew the difference between Traditional Pledgeship and the ridiculous BMP.

Both might be some goddamn fruit, but I don't trust BM. Congrats on your community service, your GPA, your finally becoming an Epsilon and learning more of my grandfather's rituals. I wouldn't respond to a BM "SigEp fight" call, because the BMP doesn't allow people to bond, there is no trust before knowledge. If it was really WWII that started the current pledge system, then I'm almost thankful the Japanese bombed pearl harbor.

Originally Posted by Scones

SigEp took the less dangerous road and listened to the growing concerns of today's anti-greek society... If you want to fix BMP, fix our messed up America first.

Umm, I have no intention of fixing BMP. BMP is clearly a reaction to Traditional Fraternity practices. The feminism of this country that is growing, making it's way into this brotherhood is appaling. I'm willing to consider changing some traditions, but the BMP kills the heart of this fraternity. At the very least if anyone tells me my chapter will become a BMP, I will take my letters with me and leave. I will go to my grandfather's grave, put my letters next to it, and share a moment of deep pain from the BMP and, I guess, society. Fixing America is another thread all together.

Originally Posted by Scones

But take my words to heart, BROTHERHOOD is not dead at my BMP. It may have a few weak links, it may have men who don't deserve. But I'll be goddamned if I tell you they know what it means to truly be a SigEp.

My BMP brothers earn their understanding, and what they reap they shall sow. That is BMP.

Originally Posted by Scones

I still don't get the BMP. And I've yet to meet a BMP who knows what SigEp is. But:

I believe they might have some brotherhood at a BMP, but brotherhood is at least dying at BM chapters. I met pledges from BM's at EDGE (which, by the way, was idiotic itself), I meet BM's when I travel to other schools for football/basketball games. They all have one thing in common, their bond of brotherhood is about as strong as a newborns skull. They inherently have to care more about grades than men, they have to care more about community service than Brotherly Love, and they don't realize that Virtue and Dilligence to a Traditional SigEp Brother means Honor and Pride, not just community service and GPA. What does a "Brother" In Need night teach you other than how many push ups you can do before you get tired? Pledging teaches you how many push ups you can do before you get tired, how much longer you can go after you get tired. Pledging has requirements and cardinal principles taught in unforgettable lessons, BMP has quests(?) with guide books(?) and community service(?). This isn't the f$%^ing Boy Scouts... I finished the Boy Scouts years ago.

Real fraternities might seem like hoodlums to society and BM pledges, but at least I know my father and his father learned how to be a SigEp the same way I did. And honestly, that is all I care about, that is goddamn tradition. That is just the tip of the iceberg as far as what it means to be a SigEp. It would take 3 or 4 BD's including 1 PM about 9 or 10 weeks to teach you what it really means to be a SigEp. I don't pretend to be an expert Balanced Men, but I'll bet I can stand on one foot longer than they can. BM's don't know what this means, but I'd love to have them wake me up with the knock of Motivated Motivated Motivated, Sir. It could be a knock dying out, but my father knows it, and I learned it. We were in two different traditional chapters, separated by 30 years, with the same traditions. If anything the BMP kills my own family's tradition.

I must stop ranting as most of the people reading this are BM and wouldn't know what I'm talking about from this point on. Traditional SigEps are a dying breed and that's a sad thing because we don't need to be. Our national staff is clearly trying to force BMP, which as a brotherhood it is completely irresponsible to accept. If my grandfather saw what has happened to this fraternity he might've not requested to be buried with a president's pin.

[Silenus]

Originally Posted by TopSider

<snip> For instane, I met a group od SigEp's traveling through about a year ago, there were 6 of them, 3 were gay. I mean, seriously, is this what my fraternity is becoming across the country? Minorities, Gays, Low class white trash? It sickens me, and I am proud to be a Traditional Chapter and by the grace of God its in the South.

I'd be remiss if I didn't start by saying "Screw you". I was born and raised in the Heart of Dixie, third generation Southern SigEp - traditional - got a quality dose of "hazing with a purpose", was part of the exec board that took our brotherhood underground and off-campus when nationals kicked us out because we wouldn't submit to their Balanced Man bullshit, still talk to new brothers weekly and visit at least yearly. Oh yeah, and I can suck a dick better than all the sophomore sorority sluts you've hooked up with combined. If you got a problem with that, I suggest you look up the meaning of "brotherhood" one more time. The word "vagina" appears nowhere in its definition.

As for this whole Balanced Man v. traditional argument. I admit I have an instinctive distrust of the BMP. I come from a family of traditional SigEps and a proudly, indeed defiantly traditional chapter. Despite this, I understand the general argument that the more thoughtful BMPs make. While both programs have their advantages and disadvantages, in the end it comes down to how the individual chapter handles it. While that's doubtlessly in part true, my concern is one I haven't seen addressed so far: the value of tradition per se.

I joined a fraternity not just for the usual reasons - brotherhood, social opportunities, &c. - but because I saw value in the fraternity experience generally and the SigEp experience in particular. Part of that value comes from the abovementioned reasons, but a large part also comes from the unofficial traditions that have long been a part of fraternity culture. These range from traditions that everyone admires, such as standing up for brothers in even the toughest situations, to those that are no longer (officially) popular, like hazing. These traditions are precisely that, traditions. They were not ideas some sadist made up for pure joy of torturing teenagers. They developed organically over the course of a century or more and they have persisted because they are effective and have value. These are casualties of programs like BMP, and whatever the virtues of such programs it is pure hubris to believe that a committee-designed plan can ever fully replace such organic traditions.

George

[pshsx1]

Originally Posted by Silenus

...While both programs have their advantages and disadvantages, in the end it comes down to how the individual chapter handles it....

I joined a fraternity not just for the usual reasons - brotherhood, social opportunities, &c. - but because I saw value in the fraternity experience generally and the SigEp experience in particular. Part of that value comes from the abovementioned reasons, but a large part also comes from the unofficial traditions that have long been a part of fraternity culture. These range from traditions that everyone admires, such as standing up for brothers in even the toughest situations, to those that are no longer (officially) popular, like hazing. These traditions are precisely that, traditions. They were not ideas some sadist made up for pure joy of torturing teenagers. They developed organically over the course of a century or more and they have persisted because they are effective and have value. These are casualties of programs like BMP, and whatever the virtues of such programs it is pure hubris to believe that a committee-designed plan can ever fully replace such organic traditions.

I hate this thread so much... yet for some reason I'm posting again.

Here's the problem I have... you're talking about traditions that are effective and have value. Tell me where hazing falls into 'effective and valuable.' Pledging? Fine. Hazing? No. Keep in mind, hazing isn't "Traditional." When our fraternity was founded, Franklin Webb Kerfoot wasn't shit on by Benjamin Donald Gaw before he was allowed to wear SPE on his heart.
But I don't want you to think I don't understand what you're saying; I do. I'm just stating the above.

The BMP isn't designed to replace good traditions; it's designed to replace negative traditions (which results in fewer risk management issues), increase membership retention, and build better men.

But as you said, it all depends how a chapter handles it's program.