Does your HQ *really* want to know about hazing?

[Drolefille]

shiner, I would agree with you that it appears that guys and girls haze for different reasons and with different motivations. The big problem is when either goes too far and people get hurt/killed.

HQs, universities, and states have responded by shutting the whole system down (or trying to). There's got to be a better response than overreaction, but what will make members know how serious they are about "dangerous" hazing without preventing the "team-building" stuff?

[shinerbock]

yeah I'm not sure either. Perhaps fraternities should come with some sort of waiver. Not that you should be able to do anything to pledges, but seeing as they CHOOSE to pledge a fraternity, they should also have the responsibility of leaving if they decide they need to. If you're old enough to enter a group, you should also be old enough to leave on your own accord. I think a problem arises in that the national HQ's are pushing no hazing so hard, almost to the point of no pledgeship, and incoming students therefore have an expectation. Back in the day when hazing was more accepted, students knew what they were getting into. When we rush kids, we let them know that is isn't all hand holding, that it is tough. For the most part that has kept us from having any problem with students who thought it was gonna be a walkthrough.

[Drolefille]

To be fair, some fraternities that preach "no hazing" turn around and haze. At least let your pledges know what they're getting into. I knew the pledges on campus who were trained to say "we don't haze" and I get why BUT if that's the line to the guys you're bidding, I say false advertising.

Have you ever had to pull fellow upperclassmen back from going to far?

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

To be fair, some fraternities that preach "no hazing" turn around and haze.

That is a fair statement.

I wonder how it squares with their Ritual, Constitution/Bylaws and/or their founders values.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by DeltAlum

That is a fair statement.

I wonder how it squares with their Ritual, Constitution/Bylaws and/or their founders values.

My guess is that those doing the hazing don't really care.

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

My guess is that those doing the hazing don't really care.

Yep. They also don't care about those who would hope to follow them since they're gambling with their charter.

[shinerbock]

Delt, its not that unbelievable. My point wasn't that Sigma Nu couldnt be a good fraternity without hazing (although I think hazing does help), but rather that they wouldnt be a good fraternity if they were one of the "Absolutely no hazing" chapters. There is a difference between fraternities who don't really haze much, and those who make it the focal point of their rush process. Now the following is a generalization, but I've also witnessed it to be true on several campuses...The fraternities who base their entire pledge program on no-hazing, generally attract the weakest candidates (here in the south). The guys we look for, as I've said before, are those who know something about fraternities and how we operate. Southern guys from good families usually know about rush and pledging and hazing, and therefore know that it isn't as bad as certain people and the media portray. Thus, they generally go to the top or middle tier fraternities, who usually do some sort of hazing. The kids who are attracted to the no-hazing fraternities are often unfamiliar with fraternities, from outside the south, and their family has no tradition of going greek. Thus, they are seeking more of a "greekchat," if you will, type of fraternity. They would rather be made brothers immediately, and have no desire to go through the journey that is pledging in the south. The no-hazing thing, in my experience, has often been used by struggling chapters to attract numbers. So what I'm saying is that among major southern universities, the chapters which loudly proclaim that they don't haze, are generally attracting people we don't want, and are generally having a tough time to start with.