Israel at War?

[RACooper]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

RA, that is pretty typical of you. Naturally, you blame Israel, rather than the terrorists using the Lebanese as personal shields. Of course, Annan comes out today to condemn Israel, but remains silent on Iran, Syria and HEZBOLLAH. Attention, to the people who may not have noticed, this is a war. Innocent people die during war. It is unfortunate. If terrorists would leave Israel alone, it wouldnt happen. Annan mentioned Israel not heeding his calls for a ceasefire, as if Kofi Annan has distinguished himself as somebody with any sort of wisdom or sense. This coming from the organization who has had people in Lebanon for over 2 decades, and yet has done absolutely nothing to stop Hezbollah's reign in recent months. Sickening.

And Shiner that is rather typical of you, swallowing the line that Israel uses for every "mistake" - ie. that Hezbollah was using the people as shields... thing is in everyone of these "accidents" the Israelis haven't been able to show any bomb camera or drone footage of this (sure they've showed footage, but nothing for the actual events).

Of course Annan condmens Israel in this attack, because after all it was the Israelis that dropped the bomb... just like the rest of the UN (except of course for US & Isreal). I can also understand his anger and frustration with Israel, because everytime it happens (like shelling the UN in the same village 10 years ago) Israel conviently turns it around to blame the victims.

Also in case you ever decided to turn away from FauxNews you'd see the anger and frustration directed against the UN by the Lebanese and Palestinians - apparently they are angry that the UN can't protect them, and they are angry that the UN is beholden to the US and Israel...

Now a final thought - both sides seem to be targeting civilians.... but only one side uses precision weapons. I join with the rest of the f-ck'in world in condemning these continual "accidents" by Israel.

[shinerbock]

1) I watch MSNBC, which is generally more in the bleeding heart category which you belong to.

2) The UN isn't controlled by the US, although they should be. You continue to ignore the UN's inaction on terrorism.

3) Your consistant condoning of terrorism makes your condemnation of Israel less legitimate.

4) Again, this is entirely the fault of Hamas and Hezbollah. They started this, and I pray to God Israel finishes it, by whatever means necc.

[RACooper]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

1) I watch MSNBC, which is generally more in the bleeding heart category which you belong to.

Well I watch CBC, BBC, DW, CNN, and when I can stomach it FOXNews. Didn't know that made me a "bleeding heart"

2) The UN isn't controlled by the US, although they should be. You continue to ignore the UN's inaction on terrorism.

No it isn't controlled by the US (thank God); but it is beholden to the US (just as it is to any security council member with veto), and the US is effectively blocking any calls for a cease-fire or condemnation for any Israeli action.

3) Your consistant condoning of terrorism makes your condemnation of Israel less legitimate.

I don't condone any terrorism - whether it be by an organization or by a state - I say again that I don't condone any terrorism. In fact I condemn the terrorism by both Hezbollah and the IDF.

4) Again, this is entirely the fault of Hamas and Hezbollah. They started this, and I pray to God Israel finishes it, by whatever means necc.

No it is not entirely the fault of Hamas or Hezbollah - yes they sparked the beginnings of the current round of violence; yes they have launched attacks on Israel; but they weren't the ones that dropped the precision bombs... so the IDF shares the blame.

[shinerbock]

1) What news you watch has nothing to do with you being a bleeding heart-type. I simply indicated that I don't prefer conservative-biased news. I would, but Fox News tends to repeat things and cover stories I think are stupid.

2) The U.S. is blocking calls for a cease fire, because it would endanger Israel. Hezbollah would not agree to a cease fire. They are not a legitimate negotiating body, they are a ultra radical terrorist organization who wants the end of Israel. Countries must have some sort of "credit" if you will, for a cease fire to work. Hezbollah has none. The U.S. consistantly blocks anti-Semetic action by the UN, usually because Israel is the only one targeted, while Kofi and the GA consistantly ignore Israel's attackers.

3) Very rarely, if at all, have I heard you condemn the terrorist organizations. It is similar to the rhetoric of many muslim groups. Simply not supporting terrorist action isn't enough. There must be condemnation, which the UN does not do.

4) It is the fault of Hezbollah. They created this problem. Would Israel have attacked them otherwise? No. Thus, it is the fault of Hezbollah, a terrorist organization who went after Israel initially.

[Rudey]

Rob it's simple. You don't consider Hezbollah to be a terrorist group. That's very telling.

And the UN is busy murdering and raping Africans so who knew they had time to cry over this?

And Hezbollah cares about civilians. That's why it continues to use them as human shields. That's why it continues to fire rockets at them. That's why they bomb buildings in Argentina.

People die in a war. It's not easy. Was there ever a single war where civilians did not die? It's a shame. It's sad. But it's reality. It can all stop when Hezbollah stops firing rockets at Israel and releases the soldiers it kidnapped while Europe and the UN admit that they allowed the country to become a large terrorist state.

-Rudey

[RACooper]

Originally Posted by Rudey

Rob it's simple. You don't consider Hezbollah to be a terrorist group. That's very telling.

And the UN is busy murdering and raping Africans so who knew they had time to cry over this?

And Hezbollah cares about civilians. That's why it continues to use them as human shields. That's why it continues to fire rockets at them. That's why they bomb buildings in Argentina.

People die in a war. It's not easy. Was there ever a single war where civilians did not die? It's a shame. It's sad. But it's reality. It can all stop when Hezbollah stops firing rockets at Israel and releases the soldiers it kidnapped while Europe and the UN admit that they allowed the country to become a large terrorist state.

-Rudey

WTF? Where the hell did I ever say that Hezbollah isn't a terrorist group?

As for your f-ck'ed up little jihad against the UN, and seemingly blaming it for Israel's actions Look back at history jackass and you might see that it was Israel and the US that tied UNIFIL's hands and prohibited them both the manadate and the firepower to disarm Hezbollah and enforce a ceasefire along the blue-line - because they didn't want a force that would potentially have to use force against Israel in enforcing a cease-fire.

[Rudey]

Originally Posted by RACooper

WTF? Where the hell did I ever say that Hezbollah isn't a terrorist group?

As for your f-ck'ed up little jihad against the UN, and seemingly blaming it for Israel's actions Look back at history jackass and you might see that it was Israel and the US that tied UNIFIL's hands and prohibited them both the manadate and the firepower to disarm Hezbollah and enforce a ceasefire along the blue-line - because they didn't want a force that would potentially have to use force against Israel in enforcing a cease-fire.

Umm you defended Hezbollah as being more than just a terror group and even tried to justify what they were doing as if it was a bunch of freedom fighters (when clearly they are a Lebanese terror group and not Hamas btw). You talked about all the nice things Hezbollah did. And my reply to you was that if someone stabbed your mother and fed you bread afterwards, they would still be a murderer.

And Rob, your anger problem is pretty bad and you should consider seeking help. Under the UN's watch, the area was stockpiled with rockets and missile launchers while the UN soldiers took a break from murdering and raping Africans to serve as human shields.

-Rudey

[DeltAlum]

I won't attempt to repeat or even paraphrase, but there was a fascinating discussion of the current crisis on NPR's "Talk of the Nation" today.

The one comment that really hit me is that, save one which wasn't identified, every modern day war has cost more civilian lives than military.

I don't even remember who said it -- someone from Rand or the Naval War College or someone, but that's pretty dramatic.