Why do multicultural GLOs/organizations exist?

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by PhDiva

Discussions about race often make white folks uncomfortable b/c they have to face the reality (often unwillingly) of their unearned skin privilege. So, I sincerely doubt every historically white GLO has members who are mature enough and willing to find out why people of color are not willing to join their organizations.

Save the crime statistics drivel for a more appropriate topic. MCGLO's exist because America has a long way to go in the race relations department.

PhDiva

Explain to me your thoughts on my "unearned skin privelege." Seeing as how I am white, I would like to know why you feel I havent earned the right to well, be an affluent white person. I think you are pretty much full of shit on this point.

You say that people of color aren't "willing" to join our organizations like we are throwing bids at them and they are declining them. Rather ignorant if you ask me. You speak like MCGLOs being put into place is a bad thing? I don't see how. Its a good place for people of like minded culture and traditions to be together and form relationships.

I am sorry, but I just don't see, especially in the South, blacks and minorities lined up at prominent white top fraternites wanting to receive a bid. I mean, show me a black guy that likes Huey Lewis and the News, Steve Winwood, Texas Music, Widespread Panic, wearing loafers and croakies, and is educated in fine Scotch and cigars......and i'd probobly think he was pretty badass........I have yet to see it......anywhere......period.

Why do you feel that historically white, prominent chapters have to embrace minorities and diversify? It is their right to be selective.

[PhDiva]

Explain to me your thoughts on my "unearned skin privelege." Seeing as how I am white, I would like to know why you feel I havent earned the right to well, be an affluent white person.

I didn't say you didn't have the right to be an affluent white person but has your race been a deterrent for you in your pursuit of that affluence? Race has been used indiscriminantly to determine who has access to wealth, power, and opportunity. Race has been used to determine who was a slave, who had to sit in the back of the bus, who could attend certain schools, who could marry until miscegenation laws were banned in 1967 and who is more likely to die from infant mortality, breast cancer and yes, street violence (<---I'm not blaming this on white folks so don't waste your breath trying to say that I am). Unearned privilege means that you can walk into most stores and have a reasonable expectation of getting good service or if you are stopped by the police, you usually think that you aren't being stopped b/c of racial profiling. Unearned skin privilege allows many white folks to believe in that rhetoric of meritocracy when all of us knows that most promotions are predicated on nepotism and networking. Dubya has been passing himself off as a self-made man when we know he's a blueblood through and through. For more on unearned skin privilege, check out Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack by Janet Helms or any work on white identity development theory.

You have every right to pursue affluence, I sure as hell am pursuing it. But I know that my race AND my gender puts me at a disadvantage even if I am a 4th generation college graduate. So I've taken steps to try to circumvent that disadvantage by earning a Ph.D. It definitely helps but it's not a cure all.

You say that people of color aren't "willing" to join our organizations like we are throwing bids at them and they are declining them. Rather ignorant if you ask me. You speak like MCGLOs being put into place is a bad thing? I don't see how. Its a good place for people of like minded culture and traditions to be together and form relationships.

What's ignorant about saying that people of color aren't willing to join your organizations b/c they don't necessarily feel comfortable? What does your organization do to make minorities feel welcomed? Shinerbock says that his org. doesn't think black people "fit" - whatever that means. If he's judging on the person like he claims he doesn't, what does race have to do with fitting? Just because you haven't seen a black person want to join your organization that knows the difference between Glenlivet and Glenfiddick doesn't mean they don't exist.

As for the comment about me thinking MCGLO's are a bad thing, you need to re-read my comments. I talked about why they initially came into existence. I never ever implied that they are a bad idea. In fact, as you point out, MCGLOs provide like minded individuals a place to belong and feel comfortable. Thus, I defend their right to exist.

Once again, we don't really discriminate. We don't feel black people will fit in our fraternity, so we don't actively recruit them. They're not banging down our door for a bid.

Shinerbock - Probably, if you checked your prejudice at the door, you might find some black folks who might want to join your org. but with assumptions about black folks "fit", they will never bang your down down. You fail to see how your prejudical beliefs are becoming self-fulling prophecies.

PhDiva

[shinerbock]

I think you're being incredibly unrealistic. I realize there are probably some black people out there who fit our "mold" perfectly. However, if they exist at my school, I'm unaware of them. I'm not going to go specifically look for black students to join my organization. Colleges already do that, and I think that is a dumb practice as well.

[PhDiva]

Shinerbock - if you are not going to actively recruit black folks, why question their right to create organizations of like minded individuals that "fit"? That's what I can't understand. If you don't want a certain segment of the population, why are you against them creating something of their own?

[shinerbock]

I'm not against it at all, I simply didnt understand the reasoning behind it. I could care less who decides to associate with who. In my experience the multi cultural groups focused on that, being multi cultural. Now, if the groups are normal GLO's who just happen to be MC, then fine, I understand that. However, those I've seen don't really seem to have a point, other than having people from different cultures. Seeing as the world is filled with such people, I see no point in forming a group if diversity is the single goal.

[SOPi_Jawbreaker]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

However, those I've seen don't really seem to have a point, other than having people from different cultures. Seeing as the world is filled with such people, I see no point in forming a group if diversity is the single goal.

Like I said in a previous post, many people hang out in cliques that are the same race or same ethnicity. So even if MCGLO's were just about having a diverse racial/ethnic/cultural mix, it would be something that is different from what just naturally exists in the groups of friends that form on campus, and I don't see how that's pointless. In addition, I believe that most, if not all, MCGLO's are also about educating the college community about different cultures and educating/getting people involved in issues relelvent to different cultures.

[shinerbock]

I mean, if they have values, which I suspect they do, its fine. I just think the ones I've witnessed don't really get the idea of what those groups should be about. Basically, it looks like they walked through a building, gathered up everyone of color, threw in 5 white folks, and then decided, hell, lets be a GLO. They don't really proclaim to be working for anything, or to have any common goals or beliefs. My point originally was that I dont understand the point of a MC group, if the only point of the group is to be MC. I'm not saying they shouldnt exist, I just personally don't get the point. My issue comes with the lack of standards some of these groups have. They take anyone who wants in. To me, thats not really a GLO, its just a club. But whatever, I'm sure there are good MC organizations who have all the other aspects of traditional GLOs, its just that I haven't seen them.

[PhDiva]

We have thousands upon thousands of dollars that we use to find the best guys that we can, and frankly, I don't see why we should be obligated to go out there and find those one or two black guys that fit the same persona as us.

You are not obligated to recruit black folks at all but why is there a question as to why MCGLO's exist is my concern? You don't have a problem with them as far as I can tell but your board mate, Shinerbock, certainly does.

However, those I've seen don't really seem to have a point, other than having people from different cultures.

I'm going to share a little bit of wisdom from a great philosopher with you:
"No investigation. No right to speak." - Confucius

MCGLO's do tons of hours of community service (actually service is prerequisite for membership into most MCGLOs), facilitate discussions on a wide variety of issues including race and multiculturalism, promote scholarship by sponsoring scholarship programs, tutoring/mentoring programs and offers members opportunities to socialize and network. Sounds pretty similar to what most GLO's offer but having people from different cultures and backgrounds provides a welcoming atmosphere for some people like Macallan wants to be with folks who like Scotch, cigars and fly fish. They have common interests which does place a premium on cultural exchange and being able to celebrate their racial/cultural heritage.

They exist because POC (people of color) and multi-cultural minded folks want a place to feel welcomed, share common interests and work toward improving the campus and their home communities.

PhDiva

[PhDiva]

Lack of standards??

Maybe at your campus but most MCGLO's and BGLO's have stringent requirements for entrance which often rival and/or surpass historically white GLO's. Beyond having a certain GPA for admission, MCGLO and BGLO's often require community service before admission and to my knowledge, most historically white GLO's don't. You have to have demonstrated commitment to public service before you are considered.

Not every black or Latin person on your campus is in a MCGLO and have you bothered to ask any of them why? Some choose not to join; others were rejected. That in itself implies standards. Again, "No investigation. No right to speak."

PhDiva

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by PhDiva

What's ignorant about saying that people of color aren't willing to join your organizations b/c they don't necessarily feel comfortable? What does your organization do to make minorities feel welcomed? Shinerbock says that his org. doesn't think black people "fit" - whatever that means. If he's judging on the person like he claims he doesn't, what does race have to do with fitting? Just because you haven't seen a black person want to join your organization that knows the difference between Glenlivet and Glenfiddick doesn't mean they don't exist.

Shinerbock - Probably, if you checked your prejudice at the door, you might find some black folks who might want to join your org. but with assumptions about black folks "fit", they will never bang your down down. You fail to see how your prejudical beliefs are becoming self-fulling prophecies.
PhDiva

I think you have to look at it at a proportional standpoint. Yes, I am sure that there are blacks that like to fly fish, wear seersucker, sperrys, drink Jack Daniels neat, play golf, and would gladly wear a sport coat out to a bar at the drop of a hat.
You can't sit here and tell me that there are a ton of them though. I have never seen one like that. Ever....at least down South. Therefore, they are not actively pursued during rush. We have thousands upon thousands of dollars that we use to find the best guys that we can, and frankly, I don't see why we should be obligated to go out there and find those one or two black guys that fit the same persona as us.
I think race has everything to do with fitting in. I am not saying that I don't accept people for what they like to do, but I just can't see a majority of the black population having any interest in joining my chapter, or chapters like KA at Alabama, Phi Delt at Ole Miss, etc.

[Taualumna]

Originally Posted by PhDiva

I

Shinerbock - Probably, if you checked your prejudice at the door, you might find some black folks who might want to join your org. but with assumptions about black folks "fit", they will never bang your down down. You fail to see how your prejudical beliefs are becoming self-fulling prophecies.

PhDiva

Well, Shinerbock IS talking about *HIS SCHOOL* and not other schools. Different schools have different cultures.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by macallan25

I am sorry, but I just don't see, especially in the South, blacks and minorities lined up at prominent white top fraternites wanting to receive a bid. I mean, show me a black guy that likes Huey Lewis and the News, Steve Winwood, Texas Music, Widespread Panic, wearing loafers and croakies, and is educated in fine Scotch and cigars......and i'd probobly think he was pretty badass........I have yet to see it......anywhere......period.

Hey, that totally describes some of my uncles...

[Tom Earp]

As was stated somewhere, it is finding the right persona and fit with the people that one feels most comfortable with.

Who are we to judge them?

The new groups so to speak have done just that.

Give credit where credit is due.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

As was stated somewhere, it is finding the right persona and fit with the people that one feels most comfortable with.

This isn't an issue for me. I don't attempt to assess how comfortable someone is. I look at aspirants qualifications to determine if they will be able to take on the responsibilities of membership. Then, I have to see a little something extra to really be convinced.

[shinerbock]

Regarding your question about the diplomat's son...I don't see why we wouldnt bid him. If he fits in, he fits in. It is pretty rare we take people from outside the south, but if they had all the familiar trappings of someone with southern heritage, it would be fine. Now, there are certain fraternities that might not. For example, some top tier schools at Ole Miss won't bid you unless you're from a private school in Mississippi. I personally think that is stupid, especially since I went to public school. Our fraternity is about half and half as far as school, but it probably evens out, given that Atlanta and Birmingham metro area public schools are often as good if not better than Alabama or Mississippi private schools. Also, we don't limit ourselves to just Alabama (I went to Auburn) in taking pledges. Of course there are places we somewhat avoid in the south (some Atlanta, Florida), but we also get a lot of our guys from the Carolinas (Charlotte, Greenville, Charleston). I mean, I love the South, but I'd probably vote to bid a kid from Vermont if he was cool enough. Granted, I'd make fun of him for being a yankee, but so long as he didn't partake in yankee practices like voting democratic, I wouldnt foresee a problem.