National Programming

[Kevin]

We've had other discussions as to how the word "hazing" has grown to encompass just about everything for some groups. The definition has grown to the point where I simply don't agree with your 95% vs 5% statement. I think that if we look back to most of our traditional programs, we'll find things like scavenger hunts which in 95% of cases are completely innocent, but in 5% of cases, they might involve questionable activities. However, under our respective organizations' rules, we would have to say that 100% of those organizations hazed.

The definition of hazing has become so broad generally for insurance and limitation of liability purposes, and of course, HQ can tell its chapters to stop doing scavenger hunts until its blue in the face. Hoewver, anything short of placing an advisor who is on the HQ payroll in each chapter house is going to fall short of accomplishing that goal.

Instead, HQs (in my estimation) have offered up national programming in an effort to offer us carrots instead of sticks. In other words, they give us something that is highly effective for intake, they reward us for doing it, and they offer support, training, and other enhancing services. They do this so that instead of the scavenger hunt we would have done in week 2, we will instead be going over module 3 of our program (or something to that effect) which could involve facilitated discussions, ropes course type games, community service, etc.

33 -- in addressing all organizations, NPC, NIC, NPHC, etc. sometimes we have to make some pretty sweeping generalizations. I didn't mean to implicate that everyone hazed, but I think a lot more hazed in the past than do now, especially under current definitions.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by ktsnake

We've had other discussions as to how the word "hazing" has grown to encompass just about everything for some groups. The definition has grown to the point where I simply don't agree with your 95% vs 5% statement. I think that if we look back to most of our traditional programs, we'll find things like scavenger hunts which in 95% of cases are completely innocent, but in 5% of cases, they might involve questionable activities. However, under our respective organizations' rules, we would have to say that 100% of those organizations hazed.

The definition of hazing has become so broad generally for insurance and limitation of liability purposes, and of course, HQ can tell its chapters to stop doing scavenger hunts until its blue in the face. Hoewver, anything short of placing an advisor who is on the HQ payroll in each chapter house is going to fall short of accomplishing that goal.

Instead, HQs (in my estimation) have offered up national programming in an effort to offer us carrots instead of sticks. In other words, they give us something that is highly effective for intake, they reward us for doing it, and they offer support, training, and other enhancing services. They do this so that instead of the scavenger hunt we would have done in week 2, we will instead be going over module 3 of our program (or something to that effect) which could involve facilitated discussions, ropes course type games, community service, etc.

33 -- in addressing all organizations, NPC, NIC, NPHC, etc. sometimes we have to make some pretty sweeping generalizations. I didn't mean to implicate that everyone hazed, but I think a lot more hazed in the past than do now, especially under current definitions.

I think if national HQs offer national programming as an "alternative to your old hazing program" it's just as much of a "stick" as being on probation or paying fines would be.

The programs have to be offered with no mention of the fact that they are to prevent hazing, because to do so implies the chapter did haze previously - and many actives/alumnae do not consider scavenger hunts/interviews/etc hazing and therefore will not respond favorably to something criticizing them. Instead, the new initiatives need to be shown to generate CONCRETE results - better member retention, better grades, more campus involvement, better campus reputation.

I mean, you tell me we have this new program that's going to be roses and daisies and so much better than the unenlightened crap we did, I'm probably going to give you a big middle finger. But show me chapters that used it and went from struggling to stay alive to the top chapter on campus, and I'll be more inclined to listen to what you have to say.

[Kevin]

You're talking about the packaging while I'm talking about the practical effect.

I think we're more-less on the same page except for a few semantical differences.

Interestingly enough, Sigma Nu (and I'd have to assume other organizations) has implemented a program called "Pursuit of Excellence." It was introduced at the '04 Grand Chapter. Its original name as it was discussed in committee, was "Minimum Expectations." The program requires chapters to submit annual reports about chapter activities, grades, membership retention, etc. There are points attached to each of the items on the list. Essentially, if a Sigma Nu Chapter does not participate in our national programming (LEAD), we won't have enough points to be considered passing. If a chapter fails to obtain enough points, it can very possibly lose its charter (although, I don't think that's happened yet, it would have to be over a period of a few years). So of course, some organizations, such as mine have actually gone in and added the stick as well.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by ktsnake

You're talking about the packaging while I'm talking about the practical effect.

I think we're more-less on the same page except for a few semantical differences.

I agree - but I think in this kind of thing, the packaging is every bit as important as the product. Especially if the chapter has been successful with their current program. No one wants to fix what they don't perceive as broken.

[bows&toes]

I've had the privelage of being around many of my old highschool friends chapters at various schools, as well as chapters at my school. Out of all those, I only know of 2 that don't haze. That is 2 out of ~20. Those 2 are considered horrible chapters on their campus. I would go out on a limb and say hazing=traditional. No matter how you try to sugar coat it, it's the truth.

DISCLAIMER

I know it will come up so here-

I'm talking about IFC FRATERNITIES. Don't know about NPC don't care. Hazing is reffered to as lineups with physical training type exercizes, scavenger hunts, everything except homo-erotic type hazing.

[macallan25]

Yeah, every man in my family that I know of was Greek and were all at big, Southern prominent Greek schools (Texas, Ole Miss, SMU, Georgia, Alabama to name a few).........and they will all tell stories of hazing, lineups, etc. etc. Sorry but i'm gonna have to side with bows&toes in that hazing is traditional.......atleast in the South.

I am a firm believer that national programs such as The Balanced Man and the True Gentleman are doing nothing but destroying chapters. I don't know of any top Southern chapters of SAE that go by our Nationa's program. Selectivity is something that they all take pride in, as is longstanding traditions and their right to not diversify.

[whittleschmeg]

You guys should check out the visions program Phi Sig implemented. It not only is for new members but through out the program you learn how to implement it as a sister and then as an alumni. From our website the program is meant to help foster commitment to lifelong learning, inclusiveness and leadership through service. I went to convention last year and I can honestly tell you if chapters sit down and actually read the values and implement the program it can help them not only as sisters but as collegians and in the future.

If my national were to read this and see what chapter I am from they would floored, my chapter just had their charter taken away because of hazing accusations. These accusations were never found to be true nor false, and I am in no way admitting to the accusations because as far as i know they are false accusations. The reason I am telling you all this is because I 100% believe in tradition( I come from a medium size school in PA) but when it comes to hazing tradition is a cop out. If you are a top tier sorority or fraternity at your respective institution whether or not you haze will not make a difference. Tradition and ritual should be kept private with-in the chapter so regardless of whether hazing or not your membership should not be affected. If it is people are going by a reputation that proceeds you and if that is the case they want to be in the chapter for the wrong reasons.

I fully belive that if people actually sit and read and think about the programs like Visions and the Balanced Man they will see that they can work and can implement them in everyday life, it should not negativley affect your chapter.