School Daze question.

[Xidelt]

I don't think bowsandtoes realizes that african americans weren't free or welcome in his organization at the time that many of the NPHC groups were founded...don't worry....it's just his stupidity and ignorance showing....



but he probably thinks he's super smart and cool.

[shinerbock]

See, this is what bothers me. Someone makes an honest statement, and gives credit to the idea that it is probably not that way everywhere, and gets called racist and ignorant...

Regarding your comments about blacks not being free or allowed to join...I don't know if that is the entire reason. The organizations are not simply black replicas of their previous white counterparts, but rather have entirely different goals and activities. My fraternity still has never had a black person, not because we are white trash racists, but because we have different ideologies, and just as a black person probably wouldn't get much out of our fraternity, he probably wouldn't fit in in our organization.

[Xidelt]

It's not an honest statement, it's his opinion. And to make himself look even more ignorant, elitist, and stupid, he goes with the "if it's older, it must be better" comment by jabbing somebody else's organization just because it was founded after his. And I'm trying to make the point that it was founded after his because the founding members weren't welcome in bowsandtoes organization because of racial attitudes/exclusion policies at the time. Don't tell me if there was a black student who wanted to be a Kappa Sig in 1900 they would have been allowed/welcomed with open arms into the brotherhood.

[shinerbock]

I'm not even telling you a black guy would be met with open arms today in Kappa Sig. If you truly want to get into why black fraternities were founded after white fraternities, its not only because they werent allowed in white fraternities, but also because they weren't even in college when many IFC fraternities were founded. You're right, it is his opinion, but you didn't do anything to refute it, only began calling names. If you want to refute the somewhat thuggish image black fraternities may have in parts of the country, why not highlight the ones that create lawyers and doctors and politicians. As somebody who went to school at a major southern university, I think I understand somewhat what he's saying. There were only 3 things I ever heard out of NPHC groups...1) That they were having a big blowout party at some club for black university students 2) That they were doing/sponsoring a stepshow or 3) that they were having some sort of forum/speaker/etc regarding racial inequality. Note I didn't say thats ALL they did, thats just all they publicized. So yeah, I never felt like they were anything like the same greek community that I belonged to.

[Xidelt]

Your ignorance really shows. I think I know a little something about big southern universities--I'm an alum of UGA, class of 2001. I also know a little something about the NPHC groups. One of my friends my freshman year was a sister of Sigma Gamma Rho. They do quite a bit of service in addition to the stepshows and parties at the nightclubs you talk about. I remember a workshop in the dorms about campus safety sponsored by her sorority and the UGA police department. There was also a panel discussion in the dorms about the differences/similarities between "white greeks" and "black greeks". It was really interesting and brought up many of the points discussed in this thread. During spring semester, all of the girls on my hall attended the step show to support our friend in SGR. Despite the notion of a "thuggish/street gang" atmosphere, it was anything but. My friends and I had a great time supporting our friend and nobody got cut, mugged, or stabbed. Gee, what a surprise! Now that I'm a teacher, I work with several women who are active members of graduate chapters of Alpha Kappa Alpha and Delta Sigma Theta. They still do active service projects, such as a science camp for teenage girls. Anything thuggish about that? And my experience is by observation only--I'm a member of a "white sorority"

[shinerbock]

Right, so again I'm ignorant how? Because I simply state what I've seen? I never said they arent active in philanthropy, I simply stated how they presented their organization on my campus. The only thing I said they WERE NOT, is something similar to the greek community I have been involved in, which you did not refute. I currently attend the University of Georgia, and hopefully I won't come out as ridiculously accusatory as you have.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I currently attend the University of Georgia

Say it ain't so.

[GIJANE]

Originally Posted by Xidelt

Your ignorance really shows. I think I know a little something about big southern universities--I'm an alum of UGA, class of 2001. I also know a little something about the NPHC groups. One of my friends my freshman year was a sister of Sigma Gamma Rho. They do quite a bit of service in addition to the stepshows and parties at the nightclubs you talk about. I remember a workshop in the dorms about campus safety sponsored by her sorority and the UGA police department. There was also a panel discussion in the dorms about the differences/similarities between "white greeks" and "black greeks". It was really interesting and brought up many of the points discussed in this thread. During spring semester, all of the girls on my hall attended the step show to support our friend in SGR. Despite the notion of a "thuggish/street gang" atmosphere, it was anything but. My friends and I had a great time supporting our friend and nobody got cut, mugged, or stabbed. Gee, what a surprise! Now that I'm a teacher, I work with several women who are active members of graduate chapters of Alpha Kappa Alpha and Delta Sigma Theta. They still do active service projects, such as a science camp for teenage girls. Anything thuggish about that? And my experience is by observation only--I'm a member of a "white sorority"

Thanks for your reply...you have the correct image of what an NPHC organization is about on college campuses. As a matter of fact many were established on majority institution campuses in order to provide a much needed bond with other African-Americans because they were not welcome in a GLO. Shinerbock has to realize that because of our bastardized, oppressive history in America, we weren't always allowed to be educated in any schools (especially colleges) in certain parts of the country, cause I don't know....maybe we were picking cotton or being someone's servant. So the organizations are fairly new for historical reasons if you consider 100 years new...

[shinerbock]

GIJANE, um what were you talking about in your response to me. I'm quite aware that I'm not a racist, how was I being retarded?

[orighu]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

If you truly want to get into why black fraternities were founded after white fraternities, its not only because they werent allowed in white fraternities, but also because they weren't even in college when many IFC fraternities were founded.

are you sure about that? i'm gonna echo what others have said - PLEASE do some research. HBCU's were founded because blacks were not allowed to attend the white universities - but i would bet there are African American families that have college degrees older than your fraternity.

Originally Posted by bows&toes

I made the comment earlier about most black fraternities that I have seen being more like a street gang then a traditional fraternity and that is due to personal experience on my campus, and other campuses my friends attend. I can bring up many different examples, such as a girl in my ex-gf house @ Oklahoma State which got shot because black fraternity members werent allowed at their private function. A guy pulled out a pistol and started shooting through the door of the party. I can recall numerous such instances at OSU, my school, and others. I'm not saying this has never happened @ an IFC chapter, but it doesn't seem nearly as frequent.

I also see much of the hip-hop culture that black fraternities try so often to emulate as contributing to the "thuggish/gangster" image and not something any respected IFC fraternity, especially in the south would tolerate. In my opinion there is nothing respectable about emulating criminals in a higher learning institution and then calling yourself a fraternity which is supposed to be the cream of the crop of any given campus. Don't get me wrong, I like hip-hop at parties as dancing music and all, but there is a difference between listening to music and trying to live it.

I feel like these are a few of the many factors that give your organizations the image of being thuggish. I will repeat what I said earlier, i'm basing all this on my personal experience and I realize that not all black chapters fall into this category. This is my OPINION, and an honest one at that, I will not beat around the bush and be PC about it so i'm sorry if I hurt anybodys feelings.

are you sure those that pulled out the gun were members of a NPHC?
and if i were to say all the IFC's that i have seen are rapist and get girls drunk just so they can sleep with them that's ok cause its my opinion? even if i know girls (now women) who that actually happened to? i am now to associate EVERY IFC w/that or those experiences?

its not about hurting anyone's feelings, and yes we all should be honest with each other and ASK honest questions, but stuff gets stupid when individuals make ASSumptions about a WHOLE group because of one or two experiences or STORIES that they have heard 2nd or 3rd hand.

I would hope that you both could/would use this forum and site to do some research, read some of the threads about the Divine 9 - and begin to understand that its more than just your surface looks.

Education is important to me and it is my assumption that every member of this board feels the same way - and therefore educating one another should be of importance - not tearing down and not saying i don't really care about XXX but say comments that have no place in the dicussion - except to upset others

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

(How did this thread get HERE, btw? Where did School Daze go? )

Yeah, i was wondering that too..... so are there still aux groups hanging around? I don't hear about them as much.......

[f8nacn]

Originally Posted by orighu

Yeah, i was wondering that too..... so are there still aux groups hanging around? I don't hear about them as much.......

I have heard of some ...but I think its in certain areas...

[shinerbock]

Well my comments about blacks not being in college at the time IFC fraternities were founded wasnt an all encompassing statement...of course there were black college students at the time. I didn't do any research on this, so you can if you'd like, but I still imagine you'll agree with me that the huge majority of all college students at the time most IFC fraternities were founded were white. I pulled up a stat saying only 21 percent of white americans had college degrees (BA) in 1997, and only 14 percent of blacks did. I'm guessing that in the mid to late 1800's, this number was much lower for whites, with the gap between them and black americans being much larger than it is today given the social climate.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by orighu

are you sure about that? i'm gonna echo what others have said - PLEASE do some research. HBCU's were founded because blacks were not allowed to attend the white universities - but i would bet there are African American families that have college degrees older than your fraternity.

Yeah but there isn't a substantial amount of blacks who received college degrees in the 1800s and early to mid 1900s--so no need to debate a point based on what are perceived as outliers to a generality. Shinerbock's post was an exaggeration but I understand what he was getting at.

The general point is that blacks were overwhelmingly shut out of most social institutions back then. There was a very small percentage of blacks matriculating at historically white colleges and universities back then and a larger percentage matriculating at whichever HBCUs were already founded.

[shinerbock]

Yeah, my point was that I don't think it was the IFC fraternities denying membership to blacks in the late 1800's. Thats not to say they would have been welcome, but I don't think the IFC fraternities at the time even had the opportunity to reject their membership.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

My fraternity still has never had a black person

I believe you mean to say your CHAPTER has never had a black member.

And even with that qualifier, honey, you might be surprised.