Mergers...is is still possible?

[OPhiARen3]

Originally posted by Rudey
You don't get it and I doubt I could explain it much more to you. I don't know how to phrase this well but a while ago there was a gentleman on here from England who wanted to start a Law Fraternity; you remind me of him.

I am sure neither of us will ever understand each other.

-Rudey

Well, we probably won't, but I would at least like to attempt it. Could you please answer my question about what makes the Tier I school students the "best people" for fraternities and sororities, based on the facts of how these schools are ranked, so that I can understand your position (even if I don't agree with it)?

I don't see what this has to do with a law fraternity; we have Phi Alpha Delta at GT - do you object to professional fraternities and sororities using the terms fraternity and sorority? Are only primarily social organizations allowed to use the terms? Excuse me, only social organizations at top-tier schools that have exclusive membership practices?

You say we will never understand each other, and while we probably will never agree, I think we can understand each other - if you would answer my questions.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by ktsnake
Often the challenges of entering top-tier schools -- especially private ones make such a move impossible. Some organizations like DKE seem to have done so, limiting themselves to mostly prestigious schools while other organizations like PKA or Kappa Sigma seem to be able to put quality chapters together on virtually any campus in fairly short order.

I guess it depends on your organization's goal -- does it want to be small and elitist, or does it want to have a large and diverse brotherhood spread all over the country? Of course some organizations also try to be both.

I didn't go to a top tier school, most of us didn't. I think the greek system in general is better with us than without us, but feel free to disagree.

I would think it's just as challenging (if not more) to go into a party school with 200 man chapters and colonize at a smaller, prestigious university.

Kevin, again I didn't say your fraternity would be better without you or your chapter.

-Rudey

[OPhiARen3]

Originally posted by Rudey
And again, to stop people from taking this down the wrong road:

I am not saying to stop chapter operations at all lower tier schools. I am saying that given that the higher tier schools have such outstanding students, it's a shame that fraternities and sororities have chosen to pass them over for the party schools.

-Rudey

Oh no! Apparently I must be seriously delusional ... My school's not Tier I, and apparently there are supposed to be parties going on all the time, everywhere - please, someone, help me, I can't find them!

If you really think that a school is either Tier I or a party school, you have not been paying attention. Did you look at the examples of schools in the top four tiers I posted? West Point is Tier IV. Probably not a party school, if I had to guess.

[OPhiARen3]

Originally posted by Rudey
You are like a rabid dog that won't shut up.

-Rudey

We're online at the same time. It happens. Don't worry, though - I'm getting offline now to work on some homework. Still, I would really appreciate it if you would answer my questions instead of name-calling.

Thanks.

[33girl]

Originally posted by Rudey
You don't get it and I doubt I could explain it much more to you. I don't know how to phrase this well but a while ago there was a gentleman on here from England who wanted to start a Law Fraternity; you remind me of him.

I am sure neither of us will ever understand each other.

-Rudey

Aww. RIP Pip.

And I think ktsnake is right - a lot of the times the "top" schools don't want Greek life and if they don't outright ban it, they discourage it. Guys can choose to come and start a colony if they want, but it's different for NPCs. But I can see the thinking of "do I want to go to Colgate and have to fight the administration constantly, or do I want to go to JustTurnedIntoAUniversity U, where they are ASKING us to come in?"

It's like the lack of participation by the more traditionally elitist schools is forcing Greeks to be less elitist if they want to survive....only for them to be called "elitist" by the nonGreek students at the antielitist schools they colonize at.

I'm going to walk away from this thread, come back later (after a Frappacino maybe) and see if that makes sense.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by 33girl
Aww. RIP Pip.

And I think ktsnake is right - a lot of the times the "top" schools don't want Greek life and if they don't outright ban it, they discourage it. Guys can choose to come and start a colony if they want, but it's different for NPCs. But I can see the thinking of "do I want to go to Colgate and have to fight the administration constantly, or do I want to go to JustTurnedIntoAUniversity U, where they are ASKING us to come in?"

It's like the lack of participation by the more traditionally elitist schools is forcing Greeks to be less elitist if they want to survive....only for them to be called "elitist" by the nonGreek students at the antielitist schools they colonize at.

I'm going to walk away from this thread, come back later (after a Frappacino maybe) and see if that makes sense.

Sororities are a different ballgame, I understand that. But even 2 or 3 sororities could couple up with at least 10 fraternities on a small top tier campus. The administration may be hostile at times, but hey party schools like Colorado and Indiana don't seem to be friendly to them these days either. From what I've seen sororities rarely worry about administration hostility at these schools, because they're not exposed to the same risks and play by the admin rules no matter what. At UChicago, the sororities bent over backwards for the admin while the fraternities refused to release membership lists and brought lawyers and alumni to meetings with admin when they tried to crack the proverbial whip.

You will never get huge chapters at these schools but that's not important. You are working with a much stronger student population to begin with. To say you want the best of the best and to encourage these great values is not believable if you are ignoring these good schools for party schools where often there is news of pledges that are tortured and events revolving around the whether a beer bong is preferable to shotgunning.

Again, I'm not saying that the top tier schools won't have their share of problems or that lower tier schools are all full of problems. I think that Greeks do well at certain top tier schools and it's sad to ignore them for the sake of growing at questionable schools.

-Rudey

[Little E]

Just a thought, but every school at one point was new. School reps are fads that come in and out depending on a variety of different factors. Prestige can be lost just as well as earned.

[Little E]

Originally posted by Rudey
I agree. Next year Princeton will be at the bottom of the list and may consider converting into a community college.

-Rudey

I never said that.

You are such a bitter boy.

[Coramoor]

Again, I think it comes down to the mentality that 'we have to expand, we have to have more numbers, and we have to include everyone'.

In my view, a fraternity is not something that includes everyone. Join a club if that's what you want.

[OPhiARen3]

Originally posted by Coramoor
Again, I think it comes down to the mentality that 'we have to expand, we have to have more numbers, and we have to include everyone'.

In my view, a fraternity is not something that includes everyone. Join a club if that's what you want.

So my sorority, in your opinion, is a club and should not be called a sorority?

I'm not saying that all fraternities and sororities have to have open membership, or that they all should. But I don't see what is wrong with organizations that do using the terms fraternity and sorority.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by OPhiARen3
So my sorority, in your opinion, is a club and should not be called a sorority?

I'm not saying that all fraternities and sororities have to have open membership, or that they all should. But I don't see what is wrong with organizations that do using the terms fraternity and sorority.

You keep pushing and pushing and it's like you want someone to just flat out say it. Whether you have some sort of Napolean complex or just want to take this thread completely off course, I don't know.

If you want that, fine. You are not in a sorority. However, you can call it a sorority if you want or a nunnery; it won't matter much.

-Rudey

[Ch2tf]

Originally posted by Rudey
If you want that, fine. You are not in a sorority. However, you can call it a sorority if you want or a nunnery; it won't matter much.

Being "relatively" new to GC, and being constrained in the amount of time I have to search GC threads, if you don't mind my asking, What organization do you belong to?

[Rudey]

Originally posted by Ch2tf
Being "relatively" new to GC, and being constrained in the amount of time I have to search GC threads, if you don't mind my asking, What organization do you belong to?

The Republican Party.

We can all discuss elections now if you wish too.

-Rudey

[OPhiARen3]

Originally posted by Rudey
You keep pushing and pushing and it's like you want someone to just flat out say it. Whether you have some sort of Napolean complex or just want to take this thread completely off course, I don't know.

If you want that, fine. You are not in a sorority. However, you can call it a sorority if you want or a nunnery; it won't matter much.

-Rudey

To you, obviously not. I would still like to see some kind of logical explanations behind the things you are saying.

As far as belonging to the Republican Party - you certainly aren't doing them much credit. At least with many Republicans I know, they at least will provide me with some reasoning and logic for their positions on different issues, even if I disagree with it. You, for some mysterious reason, refuse to even provide a reasoned argument. Not impressive.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by OPhiARen3
To you, obviously not. I would still like to see some kind of logical explanations behind the things you are saying.

As far as belonging to the Republican Party - you certainly aren't doing them much credit. At least with many Republicans I know, they at least will provide me with some reasoning and logic for their positions on different issues, even if I disagree with it. You, for some mysterious reason, refuse to even provide a reasoned argument. Not impressive.

I am not here to educate you. Your questions, sidetracking, remarks both in this thread and the one on NPC/NPHC differences are rather corrosive to many as you have seen from the responses.

While I do enjoy your insults (first against good schools - "F*ck the Ivy League" and then against me, I am going to put you on ignore. This will help provide you with more time to educate yourself in school and to do volunteer activities with your organization.

-Rudey