Obama tackles race anger in major speech

[jon1856]

Obama tackles race anger in major speech

Senator confronts issue triggered by his pastor's inflammatory comments

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23687688/
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNe...edName=topNews
http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2008/03...on_race_i.html

A point he made just does not sit right with me:
He made a comparison between his pastor and his grandmother. He made a connection where I can not see one.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by jon1856

Obama tackles race anger in major speech

Senator confronts issue triggered by his pastor's inflammatory comments

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23687688/
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNe...edName=topNews
http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2008/03...on_race_i.html

A point he made just does not sit right with me:
He made a comparison between his pastor and his grandmother. He made a connection where I can not see one.

Both came up during the same time period in diiferent areas and that is what shaped them to who they are today.

I will be listening to the speech again for more clarity but that is what I gathered.

[Senusret I]

Hosanna superstar

[skylark]

Originally Posted by jon1856

A point he made just does not sit right with me:
He made a comparison between his pastor and his grandmother. He made a connection where I can not see one.

The connection is that they are both people he loves, both shaped who he is, but on certain occasions both have made comments that offend him. Asking him to distance himself from his long-time pastor for a couple remarks that he disagrees with is like asking him to distance himself from his white grandmother who on occasion would make derogatory remarks about certain racial groups. I thought that it was a good illustration of why it would have been wrong for him to have to reject his pastor out of political pressure. I thought the comparison was helpful.

Here is the full 45-minute speech: http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/hisownwords

I highly recommend the speech in full, rather than the 5 minute clip that seems to be on most of the news sites.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Both came up during the same time period in different areas and that is what shaped them to who they are today.

I will be listening to the speech again for more clarity but that is what I gathered.

Originally Posted by skylark

The connection is that they are both people he loves, both shaped who he is, but on certain occasions both have made comments that offend him. Asking him to distance himself from his long-time pastor for a couple remarks that he disagrees with is like asking him to distance himself from his white grandmother who on occasion would make derogatory remarks about certain racial groups. I thought that it was a good illustration of why it would have been wrong for him to have to reject his pastor out of political pressure. I thought the comparison was helpful.

Here is the full 45-minute speech: http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/hisownwords

I highly recommend the speech in full, rather than the 5 minute clip that seems to be on most of the news sites.

Part of me sees and agrees with you both.
Part of me sees "family" vs a more public person.
One is talking one on one. The other to a congregation.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by jon1856

Part of me sees and agrees with you both.
Part of me sees "family" vs a more public person.
One is talking one on one. The other to a congregation.

exactly Jon....and that is what he is doing...he is being forthright about what has happened and telling the public to do 2 things...discuss it and also let it not cloud the election....also find ways that we must move on from it

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

exactly Jon....and that is what he is doing...he is being forthright about what has happened and telling the public to do 2 things...discuss it and also let it not cloud the election....also find ways that we must move on from it

Not 100% true. Just the other day, during an interview he said that he never heard any of this while in church(?!?!?).
Now he is indicating that he did or at least may have. Humm-flip/flop?

However I know of a few people who:
Did not like the direction their house of worship was taking,
Did not like how it was being lead.
Did not like the direction it was taking or going.

So, what did they do? They at least voiced some concern. Tried to change it. And if still uncomfortable with it, they found another house, another congregation.
From what I have seen and heard, Obama did nothing.

Or perhaps he tried to 20 years too late.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by jon1856

Not 100% true. Just the other day, during an interview he said that he never heard any of this while in church(?!?!?).
Now he is indicating that he did or at least may have. Humm-flip/flop?

However I know of a few people who:
Did not like the direction their house of worship was taking,
Did not like how it was being lead.
Did not like the direction it was taking or going.

So, what did they do? They at least voiced some concern. Tried to change it. And if still uncomfortable with it, they found another house, another congregation.
From what I have seen and heard, Obama did nothing.

35 mins worth of wasted words...huh?

[EE-BO]

Originally Posted by jon1856

Not 100% true. Just the other day, during an interview he said that he never heard any of this while in church(?!?!?).
Now he is indicating that he did or at least may have. Humm-flip/flop?

However I know of a few people who:
Did not like the direction their house of worship was taking,
Did not like how it was being lead.
Did not like the direction it was taking or going.

So, what did they do? They at least voiced some concern. Tried to change it. And if still uncomfortable with it, they found another house, another congregation.
From what I have seen and heard, Obama did nothing.

This is my feeling.

Anyone- like me and many of us here- who has ever spent a significant period of time affiliated with a church knows full well that you become intimately familiar with the preacher's general position and tone.

This is Obama's "Swift Boat".

And he is part of the reason it is so effective. The Swift Boat ads against John Kerrey were largely effective because Kerrey decided to portray himself as a Vietnam war hero when his actions after he came home were far from honorable (in many eyes at least- including mine.)

Obama has made this worse for himself by promoting himself as very, very close to this church and Wright. When you add in the fact he STILL has yet to offer much substance in his speeches- Wright's rhetoric is all the more damaging because it is something people can understand real fast and associate with a candidate who has yet to really lay out his general philosophy in a realistic and pragmatic way.

I have never liked Obama because of his reliance on happy sounding rhetoric instead of substance- but I do not think he shares Wright's views. I really don't think Obama is an anti-white militant. He is far too intelligent for that.

But this mess has cost him any chance of winning the general election- more because this all came up without the country having a real understanding of how Obama planned to handle the most powerful job in the world.

Obama is not responsible for the racist lunacy of Rev. Wright- but today's speech sounded a few decades out of place. And all the pundits on the news comparing Obama to Dr. King are being terribly disrespectful to the very REAL courage Dr. King had and the very REAL danger he and his followers faced daily. People like me look at that and are turned off because we feel Obama is being shoved down our throats even more than before. Noone is talking about what he can actually accomplish- but are rather making excuses for him.

Obama is responsible for not having started off his campaign being more open, pragmatic and substantive in his presentation to the voters. And this is what will cost him the election- as well it should.

The real nightmare now is for Democrats on two fronts.

First- mathematically Obama is almost certain to win the nomination, but now he is unelectable (at least I think so.) I do not envy the Super Delegates.

Second- Obama is caught between appeasing the African-America power structure who feel you defend your own at all times and at all costs (NOT the African-American community at large since I still believe most African-Americans are just as appalled at Wright as I am), and the rest of the party. And a big new demographic in this party is the Hispanic vote who are not going to be sympathetic to Wright or the association with Obama.

Rev. Sharpton himself in the last election made a big issue of how Democrats have taken the black vote for granted and worked to court Hispanics and swing voters.

We are now at a point where many issues, immigration the big one, create an enormous conflict between major voting groups within the Democratic Party- and this spells disaster as long as the CBC and other African-American power structure groups continue to play the game of "give us what we want all the time or we will turn on you in a heartbeat".

That may have worked 10-20 years ago, but the demographics of the US have changed and it won't play anymore.

And that is a shame for everyone since it creates division that is totally unnecessary.

[PhiGam]

His preacher is a racist lunatic. I doubt that he shares these views but he needs to distance himself from this guy.

[shinerbock]

I actually like the speech, though I'm currently disgusted by the media lovefest. Chris Matthews said it was one of the best speeches in American history, and I nearly vomited. I'll try not to let my distaste for the pseudo-impartial Matthews taint my view of the speech, however.

I did find it interesting that Chuck Todd stated that a white person could not have made that speech. It hadn't really occurred to me, but it is ironic that Obama is getting some acclaim for admitting that white people have legitimate gripes on a lot of things, yet those things probably wouldn't be well received if uttered by a white candidate. I don't even mean accepted by the black community, I don't think the MSM would be falling all over themselves to celebrate this honesty.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

... yet those things probably wouldn't be well received if uttered by a white candidate. I don't even mean accepted by the black community, I don't think the MSM would be falling all over themselves to celebrate this honesty.

Shiner...I think that the problem is....no one white that i can think of in recent memory tried...the closest I can think any white person ever got will Bill Clinton's aplogy for slavery.


In my own brutally honest opinion, I think that the reason why no one white and in the high echelons of power has ever really stepped to the plate is either fear of looking like a fool or losing some kind of credibility among his or her own people.

Heck, this would have been even a good time for Bush to step up to the plate and address some of the issues.

This is the biggest problem today....no one wants to step up and ADMIT that there are still problems!

[shinerbock]

A couple of things:

I think you're right that it isn't attempted. However, I don't think that changes how it would be received. Hell, the entire GOP is labeled by even mainstream democrats as a racist party. I'll get to the lack of trying in a moment, but I just don't think you'd have big time media outlets getting starry eyed if McCain had made a speech that included some of the things Obama's did. Even worse, actually, I think they'd reject it and trump up the controversy, fueling the cries of racism and prejudice that would surely come. Look at the people who speak out about busing and affirmative action now, almost all are granted no credibility by the mainstream media, regardless of their motivations. So in that regard, I certainly think society rebukes white people who make statements like Obama did.

However, I do think you're right that white folks are afraid to try. I'm not particularly concerned about the issues Obama raised that bother whites, but I think our failure to speak openly about them is indicative of the racial fear that plagues white America. We're so focused on not looking racist that we'll not only avoid speaking our mind, we'll throw other white folks under the bus so that we can point to them and say "look, I took out one of my 'own,' surely I'm not prejudiced!"

I just don't think the environment is favorable for that kind of speech from a white person, unless it is completely safe and merely represents the white community taking responsibility for the problems encountered by black Americans. But, ultimately it is the white people who cower in the corner, they're the ones who make the final decision to stay silent and not engage in honest discourse.

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Shiner...I think that the problem is....no one white that i can think of in recent memory tried...the closest I can think any white person ever got will Bill Clinton's aplogy for slavery.


In my own brutally honest opinion, I think that the reason why no one white and in the high echelons of power has ever really stepped to the plate is either fear of looking like a fool or losing some kind of credibility among his or her own people.

Heck, this would have been even a good time for Bush to step up to the plate and address some of the issues.

This is the biggest problem today....no one wants to step up and ADMIT that there are still problems!

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

A couple of things:

I think you're right that it isn't attempted. However, I don't think that changes how it would be received. Hell, the entire GOP is labeled by even mainstream democrats as a racist party. I'll get to the lack of trying in a moment, but I just don't think you'd have big time media outlets getting starry eyed if McCain had made a speech that included some of the things Obama's did. Even worse, actually, I think they'd reject it and trump up the controversy, fueling the cries of racism and prejudice that would surely come. Look at the people who speak out about busing and affirmative action now, almost all are granted no credibility by the mainstream media, regardless of their motivations. So in that regard, I certainly think society rebukes white people who make statements like Obama did.

However, I do think you're right that white folks are afraid to try. I'm not particularly concerned about the issues Obama raised that bother whites, but I think our failure to speak openly about them is indicative of the racial fear that plagues white America. We're so focused on not looking racist that we'll not only avoid speaking our mind, we'll throw other white folks under the bus so that we can point to them and say "look, I took out one of my 'own,' surely I'm not prejudiced!"

I just don't think the environment is favorable for that kind of speech from a white person, unless it is completely safe and merely represents the white community taking responsibility for the problems encountered by black Americans. But, ultimately it is the white people who cower in the corner, they're the ones who make the final decision to stay silent and not engage in honest discourse.

Part of the reason why I hate hearing someone say, "I'm not racist...I have black friends..."

There will never be such a thing as a 'safe' environment...MLK and Malcolm spoke out in far more dangerous environs back in the 60s and ultimately sacrificed thier lives....40 years later if there are those who are still afraid to speak may only have themselves to blame for the environment to come out and speak on it.

Regardless, something must be done...we are at a point where there are more minorities here than there ever was...more people of differing beliefs and if it's not addressed now then someone else will set this country back.

Now and tomorrow is not the time to be afraid to take step

[PhiGam]

MSNBC is the Obama network now.