E-Mails Suggest Paterno Role in Silence on Sandusky

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by thewasher418

May I introduce you to my home state (Louisiana), where people who have NEVER SET FOOT in Baton Rouge, never went to ANY college or went to another one (like I did), live and breathe LSU football. This is not unique.

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I didn't know you were from LA! Amen! LSU is Mecca no matter where you went to school or even I'd you didn't (which applies to most people) and is one of the ties that binds the citizens of the state.

I didn't even know that people were into college sports who didn't attend the school or have at least a family member who did until I moved to Idaho. I then became aware of some team at a JC in Boise with the same colors of a Kraft macaroni and cheese box and the same logo as a football team in Denver.

Don't most big football schools have the capability to not only have a scandal and cover it up? In most cases it involves the actual players and coaches and not outsiders, let alone children. I think that this affects reactions and attitudes because unlike grades/academics, rape, drugs, and money/gifting, most people don't have gray areas when it comes to child molestation and covering it up.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel

I didn't even know that people were into college sports who didn't attend the school or have at least a family member who did until I moved to Idaho. I then became aware of some team at a JC in Boise with the same colors of a Kraft macaroni and cheese box and the same logo as a football team in Denver.

Don't most big football schools have the capability to not only have a scandal and cover it up? In most cases it involves the actual players and coaches and not outsiders, let alone children. I think that this affects reactions and attitudes because unlike grades/academics, rape, drugs, and money/gifting, most people don't have gray areas when it comes to child molestation and covering it up.

This I think is very true. What happened at PSU took some special Kool-aid that everyone must be on guard to prevent. Checks and balances are important. No one should be THAT important. How to fix the other problems? Pay players what they deserve? Ban NFL scouts and sports agents from college campuses? Hold coaches personally responsible for their players misdeeds? No college program is squeaky clean. Supposedly they are rewriting the rule book so we'll see.

As for areas that take college football seriously, it usually happens where pro-football isn't as dominant. I guarantee that throughout the SEC the fan base is more non-alum, state resident than actually comprised of alumni.

[AXOmom]

Originally Posted by agzg

As a proud Pitt alumna, I hate WVU just slightly more than I hate Penn State.

Yeah, well we hate you more! . At some point we'll have to move this over to the college football thread and discuss the ironies of Rich Rod and Graham ending up at Arizona and Arizona State (I know - they didn't coach at WVU and Pitt at the same time - still).

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel

I didn't even know that people were into college sports who didn't attend the school or have at least a family member who did until I moved to Idaho. I then became aware of some team at a JC in Boise with the same colors of a Kraft macaroni and cheese box and the same logo as a football team in Denver.

I'll thank you NOT to use my beloved DENVER Broncos and that other team in the same sentence. .
****
And back on a serious note - I think Jerry Sandusky and the abuse could happen anywhere and does. That issue isn't at all about Penn State.

I think the cover up by Paterno and the administrators COULD happen at other places when and if people at those places start believing that their group is special and set apart in such a way that the rules and the consequences of those rules don't apply to them. I don't think any of the posters here believe that- I just think that some (not all) of the "things are different here" views expressed are probably less extreme versions of what Joe Paterno and the Penn State administration (or some of them) believed at some level that caused them to think they could and should cover some things up.

And now I've also used up my quota on the word some.

[DrPhil]

Rob Bolden transfers to LSU.


Silas Redd transfers to USC.


Sandusky is loony.

[AOII Angel]

I called LSU picking up a QB. One of my AOII sisters from PA was lamenting that the poor players would have no where to go, and I told her that quality players would be picked up quickly. LSU always has a need for QBs.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Will everyone stop jumping down ASTAlumna06's throat if she qualifies her statements with "In the Northeast"?

Thank you!

Originally Posted by Greek_or_Geek?

I think you need to get out more then. Start with maybe visits to Alabama and Mississippi. Then you might be able to comprehend how spectacularly commonplace Penn State's relationship to its public is.

I need to get out more? In the last 10 years, I've lived in 4 different states, and in just the last 2 years, I've traveled to 10+ others for both business and pleasure. "Getting out" isn't a problem for me.

Originally Posted by AXOmom

The sorority analogy wasn't actually directed at anything you said - it was directed more at what several PSU posters in this thread and another on this same subject have said over the past few months. I don't think this means any of them or you condone the actions taken by Penn State's administration - I'm just saying that on some level - the "it's just different here" or "our relationship to our school is special" can be dangerous and can lead to those actions.

.....

As Greek or Geek suggested, you need to spend some time in a state where the opposite of your Boston experience is true - a state where the university and specifically the university's football program is pretty much all there is for many reasons (once again I offer up Nebraska). Or they're raised in a culture where college football qualifies as a religous belief system (Texas). What seems unique and unusual to you would seem expected and standard for them.

Originally Posted by thewasher418

May I introduce you to my home state (Louisiana), where people who have NEVER SET FOOT in Baton Rouge, never went to ANY college or went to another one (like I did), live and breathe LSU football. This is not unique.

Originally Posted by AXOmom

.....
Instead I would hope that if many pointed out to us a particular situation we believe is unique to us really isn't and we should broaden our horizons a bit before drawing that conclusion - we would consider that our previous assumptions might be incorrect and adjust them.

.....

She said she grew up in the northeast and she stated that the type of relationship between Pennsylvania and Penn State doesn't exist there. That I understood, and I stated that I could see where that would be the case. All I suggested was this probably explained why the situation in Pennsylvania seemed unique to her, but if she had spent time in another part of the country she probably wouldn't find that to be the case, and she should probably do that before making the assumption that it is a unique situation.

Can someone please point out to me where I said that Penn State's situation is unique? Where did I say that there are no other schools in the country that can compare to PSU?

I originally agreed with als463's response to this:

Originally Posted by AXOmom

There may be some players who have always dreamed of playing at Penn State and who will choose to go there, walk-on, and play there even if it means going into debt, and if so, hey, kudos to them, but honestly I can think of very few instances, outside of a Harvard or Yale or a school with a religous emphasis (Notre Dame, BYU) where a talented kid with other good options would choose to go as a walk on, particularly if it meant four years of student debt, rather than take a scholarship offer to another school and I can't think of many parents, regardless of how many generations went to that school, that would let them. Now, if the only other offers they had were to much smaller programs or vastly inferior schools and they knew they had no NFL potential, they just wanted to try and play football while they were in school because they love playing - then I could see that scenario, but that player is unlikely to be of much help to Penn State in the Big 10.

... and basically said that with the Penn State pride I've seen among students, alumni, and PA residents, I wouldn't be so quick to assume that every parent of a football player would turn their child away from playing at PSU.

[thewasher418]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

Thank you!
Can someone please point out to me where I said that Penn State's situation is unique? Where did I say that there are no other schools in the country that can compare to PSU?

The statement I quoted in my previous post, with the bolded part I added myself for emphasis, is not those exact words but implies it very strongly. I hate quote-fests so I won't quote it again.

And I think what everybody is trying to say is not that you or any Penn Stater is provincial/narrowminded/whatever, but rather that the 'mystique' that keeps being mentioned over and over- bonding alumni together, bonding the whole state's residents together, making the school an integral part of their lives whether they attended or not- is not as rare and unique as imagined. Nothing you couldn't find in Oklahoma, West Virginia, Louisiana, Georgia, Ohio, etc. And it's possible that blind belief in that not-actually-so-special 'mystique,' left unchecked, allowed such terrible things to happen. Could it happen elsewhere? Sure, because we humans can be terrible like that.

[als463]

Okay, for the sake of reasoning and not to make anyone feel the least bit slighted (since that is definitely not what I intended), the point that I was trying to make--thank you ASTAlumna06 for helping me try to explain and agreeing--was that when you have such a strong alumni base, many times a family may choose to go into debt before sending their child elsewhere. Let me use LSU, Alabama, Michigan, whatever school we want to use that is super into football (or that university for whatever reason).

If Matthew Michigan comes from a long line of Michigan Alumni and a big scandal like what is going on now happened there, I believe that he may stay at Michigan because his family is all about the generational pride in the university. That is the only point I was trying to make. You can change that to Louis LSU or Adam Alabama (or whatever you want--it doesn't matter--just pick a school) and that may happen. That is the point I was making. If my future child chose Penn State over many other schools, I would be over the moon because I bleed blue and white (not for the sports, either). It's just something to think about when talking about students leaving the team. That's all I was trying to say. I hope I explained it without offending/ upsetting anyone.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by thewasher418

The statement I quoted in my previous post, with the bolded part I added myself for emphasis, is not those exact words but implies it very strongly. I hate quote-fests so I won't quote it again.

All I said was that I've never experienced anything like it before. And I haven't. Maybe if I moved to Alabama, or Texas, or other states that people threw at me, I might.

And I think what everybody is trying to say is not that you or any Penn Stater is provincial/narrowminded/whatever, but rather that the 'mystique' that keeps being mentioned over and over- bonding alumni together, bonding the whole state's residents together, making the school an integral part of their lives whether they attended or not- is not as rare and unique as imagined. Nothing you couldn't find in Oklahoma, West Virginia, Louisiana, Georgia, Ohio, etc. And it's possible that blind belief in that not-actually-so-special 'mystique,' left unchecked, allowed such terrible things to happen. Could it happen elsewhere? Sure, because we humans can be terrible like that.

Again, I never said it was rare.

Maybe we misunderstood each other somewhere in there, but again, it wasn't my intention to suggest that Penn State is a special and unique snowflake.

I'll leave all of that kind of talk to the handful of super-fabulous PNMs who are sure to show up on this site in the near future.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by als463

Okay, for the sake of reasoning and not to make anyone feel the least bit slighted (since that is definitely not what I intended), the point that I was trying to make--thank you ASTAlumna06 for helping me try to explain and agreeing--was that when you have such a strong alumni base, many times a family may choose to go into debt before sending their child elsewhere. Let me use LSU, Alabama, Michigan, whatever school we want to use that is super into football (or that university for whatever reason).

If Matthew Michigan comes from a long line of Michigan Alumni and a big scandal like what is going on now happened there, I believe that he may stay at Michigan because his family is all about the generational pride in the university. That is the only point I was trying to make. You can change that to Louis LSU or Adam Alabama (or whatever you want--it doesn't matter--just pick a school) and that may happen. That is the point I was making. If my future child chose Penn State over many other schools, I would be over the moon because I bleed blue and white (not for the sports, either). It's just something to think about when talking about students leaving the team. That's all I was trying to say. I hope I explained it without offending/ upsetting anyone.

Isn't this a massive strawman though? Like, this point literally doesn't matter to this discussion, at all - and nobody really argued against it with any real aplomb.

The point you were making is that Penn State will still be able to field a football team? OK, acknowledged.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Isn't this a massive strawman though? Like, this point literally doesn't matter to this discussion, at all - and nobody really argued against it with any real aplomb.

The point you were making is that Penn State will still be able to field a football team? OK, acknowledged.

That is why als463 comes in these threads.

(((als463)))

[thewasher418]

Louis LSU would be a terrible name for a boy.... </wrongthread >

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by thewasher418

Louis LSU would be a terrible name for a boy.... </wrongthread >

Well is is French at least.

[AXOmom]

[QUOTE=ASTalumna06;2163390]Thank you!
QUOTE]
As I said to 33girl, I can't see anything I said that would qualify as jumping down your throat. If that's the case I apologize, but could I ask what I said that gave you that impression?

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

Can someone please point out to me where I said that Penn State's situation is unique? Where did I say that there are no other schools in the country that can compare to PSU?
.

No, you're right, you did not say it was unique (and for the record I never said that you had stated there were no other schools in the country that could compare to PSU, so I'm not sure where that's coming from), but this comment:

"My point is that basically the entire state IS Penn State.... But what I'm saying is that a huge chunk of Pennsylvanians live and breathe Penn State, even if they never attend the school. It is THE school in PA. That's not to say that other schools in PA aren't great or worth going to.. And I'm not saying Penn State is the best.. it's just that Penn State is a way of life for A LOT of people."

does come across that way. It sounds like you find it unusual at the very least, and the point being made to you by myself and others is that it isn't even all that unusual. The fact that you said it to support something als463 said and she has made several statements that have an even stronger "Penn State is a special snowflake" implication to them added further to this impression. If we misunderstood you, then I apologize, but since there were several of us who misunderstood you, then I think you should consider that in the context of the thread, what you said came across in a way you didn't intend.

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

I originally agreed with als463's response to this:

... and basically said that with the Penn State pride I've seen among students, alumni, and PA residents, I wouldn't be so quick to assume that every parent of a football player would turn their child away from playing at PSU.

als463's response was to something I said to 33girl concerning the likelihood that football players with ties to Penn State would forego scholarships to other schools in order to play without a scholarship to Penn State, but her response had to do with her view that parents whose kids (any kids -not limited to football plalyers) had scholarships to other schools might still send them to Penn State. I don't disagree with her view on that - it just had nothing to do with my response to 33girl which strictly dealt with football players, so her comment wasn't really relevant.

I also never said that EVERY parent of a football player would turn their child away from playing at PSU and never assumed any such thing. As a matter of fact I stated that some parents under some conditions might encourage their boys to do that, but I mentioned several reasons why I didn't think it was likely that many would (for one thing I don't think there would be many who fit that criteria to begin with).

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

All I said was that I've never experienced anything like it before. And I haven't. Maybe if I moved to Alabama, or Texas, or other states that people threw at me, I might.

And this was the only point that was being made to you.

Again, I understand that we probably did completely misunderstand you, but I hope you understand why you were misunderstood.

By the way, (and this part isn't directed at you ASTalumna06) I found this survey recently given out by Penn State to their alums interesting.

http://alumni.psu.edu/about_us/2012-alumni-opinion-survey

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by AXOmom

http://alumni.psu.edu/about_us/2012-...opinion-survey

Wow.

I'm all for conducting research but that is a bit strange.