kappa sigma at fgcu?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Rambler1869

That being said, what (at the least) these men are currently fighting for is simply the right to use meeting rooms on campus.

Have you heard of these things called "apartments" or "dorms"? Seriously, if your biggest gripe is that you can't use meeting rooms and you're being this unpleasant about it, you all really need to rethink your priorities.

[Rambler1869]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Have you heard of these things called "apartments" or "dorms"? Seriously, if your biggest gripe is that you can't use meeting rooms and you're being this unpleasant about it, you all really need to rethink your priorities.

They have been in apartments this entire time. But they shouldnt have to be, thats the most basic of this whole problem. It is discriminatory to say one group can use facilities, when a group of the same type cannot.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Rambler1869

They have been in apartments this entire time. But they shouldnt have to be, thats the most basic of this whole problem. It is discriminatory to say one group can use facilities, when a group of the same type cannot.

No, it's not. The group has not been approved by the school, therefore why should it be allowed to use school facilities?

And also, reread LaneSig's post. You can't flip people off with one hand and expect them to shake the other.

[Rambler1869]

Originally Posted by 33girl

No, it's not. The group has not been approved by the school, therefore why should it be allowed to use school facilities?
.

What I'm not sure you realize (not an attack, just not sure), is that until recently the school has refused to even give them the application to become an RSO (you cant be approved if you arent allowed to apply). Every organization must be an RSO (even members of IFC are RSO's). They have been trying to do this since 2008; to at least be an RSO.

As for flipping off and asking for help... Yes, there was an early encouter which left a bad taste in the mouth of the administration (not the IFC, as the men were not permitted to meet with them). That happened in 2008; since that time those men are no longer members of Kappa Sigma and the remaining men have actually tried diligently to work with the school to overcome that feeling (sending them updates of their activities such as their philanthropic work, asking for meetings, trying to work with the school on a positive level). The administration continued their stance, regardless. Something we do hope and believe in time will be resolved.

[UofM-TKE]

I cringe whenever this thread is bumped, but this quote in just too much.

Originally Posted by KSigAdvisor

Separate but equal huh 33 girl? Real classy. Should we have to eat in different restaurants as well? Should we have to sit on the back on the bus too? Should we be denied the same drinking fountains until the government "approves" us while the rest of the (ahem) white citizens fight to keep us from being equal? We have just regressed 70 years in the course of one blog. "Throw those idiots in the dorms and apartments, they aren't getting the nice school facility meeting rooms like we get!!" Real. Classy.

Comparing 30 or so students at FGCU who are having problems forming a fraternity, to millions of people who had to endure slavery, segregation and the lingering effects of these is frightening in its insensitivity.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Look, I don't see how they are discriminating agianst you. You aren't recognized, because they require IFC membership, or at least that is what I think is the issue. However, for them to be discriminating against you, they would have to be specifically punishing you for being a member of Kappa Sigma, which they are not doing. Oh news flash, there are quite a few state organizations that run like this. No law is violated, because as I said, they are not punishing you. Hell if anything, you want them to hold you to a different standard then anybody else. That is discriminatory against them.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by KSigAdvisor

Vito I'm going to say this as nicely as I can, but you are dead wrong. Legally and no offense, you have absolutely no idea what you re talking about. I don't think you're stupid because you are wrong, so don't get all offended on me. But legally, dead wrong.

"If you want to be recognized by the school as a GLO and the school requires GLOs to have council membership, then yes, you do."

Knight Shadow, so you think it's constitutional for the school to allow other students (IFC members) to say whether we can or can't be an organization? Slippery slope. You won't find support for that theory in any doctrine legally, anywhere, but hey, it's your opinion.

Again, I will ask you, do you even have any legal trianing. We have somebody who most would argue is a Constitutional scholar, telling you are talking out of your ass. You just keep saying something is illegal without explaining how it is. And I do know what I am talking about, considering I went to a state school that also require a social GLO to be recognized by our IFSC before being granted recognizance by the OGL.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by KSigAdvisor

Vito I'm going to say this as nicely as I can, but you are dead wrong. Legally and no offense, you have absolutely no idea what you re talking about. I don't think you're stupid because you are wrong, so don't get all offended on me. But legally, dead wrong.

"If you want to be recognized by the school as a GLO and the school requires GLOs to have council membership, then yes, you do."

Knight Shadow, so you think it's constitutional for the school to allow other students (IFC members) to say whether we can or can't be an organization? Slippery slope. You won't find support for that theory in any doctrine legally, anywhere, but hey, it's your opinion.

I'll say it again: You still haven't answered questions asked of you.

I won't find any support, yet schools around the country practice it. All of a sudden, a group of undergrads feels they're entitled to something, and it's dead wrong.

Like TSteven said, if your rights were violated, KSig's lawyers likely would have stepped in.

They haven't.

[Rambler1869]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

Like TSteven said, if your rights were violated, KSig's lawyers likely would have stepped in.

They haven't.

Yes, they did. In February a formal notification was sent by the Kappa Sigma legal commision to FGCU, stating our position; in hopes of a speedy turn around. As I mentioned earlier; there are other talks in the works between the legal teams

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by Rambler1869

Yes, they did. In February a formal notification was sent by the Kappa Sigma legal commision to FGCU, stating our position; in hopes of a speedy turn around. As I mentioned earlier; there are other talks in the works between the legal teams

I think you should tell KSigAdvisor to stop talking, as you're a better representation of your organization.

If the wheels are turning and you all are working toward getting this resolved, why is this being debated on a message board? Why not let this thing run its course?

[Rambler1869]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

If the wheels are turning and you all are working toward getting this resolved, why is this being debated on a message board? Why not let this thing run its course?

Like I said (if it really matters); we didnt start this. I just jumped in, because of all the misinformation that I had read by outside individuals.

I would love to say its all getting "worked out"... but unfortunately it has taken a lot longer and more pressure from Kappa Sigma to get this far, as the school had basically tried to move on and ignore the situation. I'm hopeful that eventually these men will not only be able to use school facilities; but also be recgonized be the IFC (that part may just take the longest; but is really a seperate issue).

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

I won't find any support, yet schools around the country practice it. All of a sudden, a group of undergrads feels they're entitled to something, and it's dead wrong.

This would make an excellent thread.

Quite a few of us have experience with institutions that perceivably have annoying and sucky Greek Life rules and regulations. Annoying and sucky do not equal illegal. However, that's why all of our organizations have attorneys.

Good luck to the KSig attorneys who will determine whether it's worth it and able to be ironed out. However, honestly, there are plenty of ways that institutions can informally make GLOs' existences a living hell after they've essentially forced themselves on campus.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by KSigAdvisor

Those "umbrellas" are a legal fallacy, and are only legal at PRIVATE institutions. FGCU can't force fraternities to be under a Greek umbrella any more than they can force a religious organization to be under a religious council umbrella. Treating Greeks differently is discrimination. And forcing all greeks through the same discriminatory process doesn't make it constitutional. some people operate under teh assumption that this "umbrella" is legal and necessary to "enforce rules." We don't, that's it.

WRONG.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by KSigAdvisor

Very fair question TSteven, and I hope you'll let me answer.

FGCU wouldn't even let us apply to be an RSO. We had multiple meetings with the administration, and we were told we couldn't apply unless IFC recognized us. Finally, once we got media coverage and put enough pressure on the university, they gave us an application to apply, and I swear on anyone's grave that is the god's honest truth- FGCU wouldn't even let us apply and they told us (orally) time and time again, including the Dean of Students and the VP of student Affairs that they wouldn't recognize us unless IFC did first. As you should know, IFC also denied us the right to even go to a meeting and give a presentation until March 2010. So, unfortunately, things take forever.

If I correctly understand the current situation, at this point in time, your chapter's application to be an RSO is being reviewed by FGCU. And y'all were able to give a presentation to the IFC this past March.

So would it be fair to say that progress is being made regarding recognition by FGCU as a RSO and with the IFC as an official chapter - or colony as the case may be?

And as a follow up, what was the specific (official) reason for the denial with respect to the attempt to reserve a meeting space?

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by KSigAdvisor

Those "umbrellas" are a legal fallacy, and are only legal at PRIVATE institutions. FGCU can't force fraternities to be under a Greek umbrella any more than they can force a religious organization to be under a religious council umbrella. Treating Greeks differently is discrimination. And forcing all greeks through the same discriminatory process doesn't make it constitutional. some people operate under teh assumption that this "umbrella" is legal and necessary to "enforce rules." We don't, that's it.

Yes, but campus religious organizations also will not keep out people not of their faith. greek orginzations are treated differently, because they are run differently. they are exclusinary by nature. By requiring it to be part of an umbrella, they are really recognizing the umbrella organization. By doing so, they are recognizing a group that theroetically any male student can be a member of. Perfect example of the difference between IFC and individual organization is the mutually exclusive nature of them.