9 Charged after girl kills herself over bullying

[srmom]

If all the parents did was complain and wait, they didn't do nearly enough. I wager that most of these kids have inadequate coping skills because their parents have provided inadequate coping mechanisms. Kids are a reflection of their environments

So, I guess at 12, I was expected to have "adequate coping skills" and my parents did a poor job raising me. I'll be sure to let them know.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

well said. I especially agree with the part in bold.

Yeah mainstream society doesn't give a damn about kids committing suicide, being bullied, having pregnancy pacts, shooting in the schools, wearing revealing prom dresses, etc. until it impacts white kids outside of the inner city public school systems.

They need to be focused on why this is happening beyond focusing on these bullies and acting like life for white kids is supposed to be Heaven--que pasa?! They also need to go beyond attempting to attribute everything to a diagnosable and medication-treatment worthy disorder. This is already an over-diagnosed and over-medicated society. Kids can't even fail a couple of tests (which is hardly a hardcore pattern of behavior) without going to the disabilities services center and getting a documented disorder and potentially going on medication.

/end rant

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by srmom

So, I guess at 12, I was expected to have "adequate coping skills" and my parents did a poor job raising me. I'll be sure to let them know.

Definitely let them know because the coping mechanisms they were supposed to provide come BEFORE you develop adequate coping skills. Get the order straight.

And let us know how your talk with your parents turns out.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Yeah mainstream society doesn't give a damn about kids committing suicide, being bullied, having pregnancy pacts, shooting in the schools, wearing revealing prom dresses, etc. until it impacts white kids outside of the inner city public school systems.

They need to be focused on why this is happening beyond focusing on these bullies and acting like life for white kids is supposed to be Heaven--que pasa?! They also need to go beyond attempting to attribute everything to a diagnosable and medication-treatment worthy disorder. This is already an over-diagnosed and over-medicated society. Kids can't even fail a couple of tests (which is hardly a hardcore pattern of behavior) without going to the disabilities services center and getting a documented disorder and potentially going on medication.

/end rant

agreed

[DrPhil]

I have probably told this story before. Hilarious.

I went to a majority Black high school and we had ESL classes. Some of the dumbass Black boys would pick on the kids from other countries who couldn't speak English. Well, unlike the disabled kids who couldn't fight back, the ESL kids could:

LOL. One day after lunch, the Black boys thought they could call one of the Asian boys who didn't speak English that he was Bruce Lee. So, one particular boy decided to prove them RIGHT and kung fu their asses in the hallway. No one was harmed but it let the bullies know that they aren't picking on some punks just because these students were ESL and most of them were smaller in size.

We all laughed AT the Black boys and no one ever messed with the ESL students again. I don't condone kids fighting back but there are a number of ways to let bullies know that they need to sit down somewhere. Even taking your kid to self-defense classes can boost self-esteem and provide a defense mechanism if need be.

[Prettyface08]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

The parents DO have some blame. They weren't aggressive enough. sometimes when issues like this arise, parents have to "show out" in order to see something happen.

THIS would be my mom. She doesn't play those games.

[AOII Angel]

I was lucky I guess. One girl tried to bully me in third grade and wouldn't let me join her clique but she'd been held back from the fourth grade, and I didn't want to be friends with a dumb girl! After that, I was significantly taller than everyone else and people were always afraid of me, though I would never have been mean to someone purposely. It worked out well.

[Prettyface08]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I have probably told this story before. Hilarious.

I went to a majority Black high school and we had ESL classes. Some of the dumbass Black boys would pick on the kids from other countries would couldn't speak English. Well, unlike the disabled kids who couldn't fight back, the ESL kids could:

LOL. One day after lunch, the Black boys thought they could call one of the Asian boys who didn't speak English that he was Bruce Lee. So, one particular boy decided to prove them RIGHT and kung fu their asses in the hallway. No one was harmed but it let the bullies know that they aren't picking on some punks just because these students were ESL and most of them were smaller in size.

We all laughed AT the Black boys and no one ever messed with the ESL students again. I don't condone kids fighting back but there are a number of ways to let bullies know that they need to sit down somewhere. Even taking your kid to self-defense classes can boost self-esteem and provide a defense mechanism if need be.

Oh, I think I can one-up you. LOL in elementary, once a week we would have one of the students from the disabled class sit in on our class. We had the same student every week and he'd been coming for almost the entire school year. One day, one of the boys in our class decided to make fun of him (we all made fun of each other, but kept the disabled boy out of it. We really liked him and he was nice), he couldn't speak and he could hardly walk...he used crutches. I guess the taunting from the boy got on his nerves because his face got completely red, he threw his crutches to the ground and walked up in the boys face. We just stood around with our mouths open, the teacher had to come pull him away. When the disabled boy left the class, we laughed SO hard. The boy who was teasing him was going to be beat up by a disabled kid.

[srmom]

Yeah mainstream society doesn't give a damn about kids committing suicide, being bullied, having pregnancy pacts, shooting in the schools, wearing revealing prom dresses, etc. until it impacts white kids outside of the inner city public school systems.

They need to be focused on why this is happening beyond focusing on these bullies and acting like life for white kids is supposed to be Heaven--que pasa?! They also need to go beyond attempting to attribute everything to a diagnosable and medication-treatment worthy disorder. This is already an over-diagnosed and over-medicated society. Kids can't even fail a couple of tests (which is hardly a hardcore pattern of behavior) without going to the disabilities services center and getting a documented disorder and potentially going on medication.

/end rant

OH for God's sake. Who gives a rat's patootie about "mainstream society" caring when it's happening in your own home to your own kid (or to you).

It may be okay with you for kids to be taking matters into their own hands, ala Bruce Lee, and that sending them to Kung Fu classes is somehow adequately preparing them to cope with bullies, but that's not reality in most situations!

AND, in the case of a kid who cannot possibly Kung Fu his way out of a bullying situation, are they supposed to go Columbine and teach those bullies a lesson by bringing weapons and shooting?

And, I don't have any idea what "show out" means, but I'm betting it's not something my mom would have done.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by srmom

OH for God's sake. Who gives a rat's patootie about "mainstream society" caring when it's happening in your own home to your own kid (or to you).

I do, just like you give a rat's patootie about the little boy with the torn anus. We're talking about SOLUTIONS and clearly you think that what's happening to your own kid should matter to OTHERS.

As for your response to my Bruce Lee post, you clearly didn't grasp it. Run along now.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

You shouldn't make such assumptions. Sometimes bullies gain power not because of superiority in size and strength, but simply by using mind games. I've seen kids being bullied by other kids who are the same size.

Being little doesn't mean you are completely helpless.

It doesn't, but it doesn't mean you can do shit about it either. It's ridiculous to expect one kid to fight a group especially if he is smaller than they, and the "hit them back" attitude backfires just about every single time.

Having been the little person (and no I wasn't tiny, but small enough to know I couldn't take them all on in a million years) surrounded by much larger girls, I know exactly how it feels when you realize there is literally nothing you can do to protect yourself at that moment. Knowing you can run to a teacher or parent afterword isn't reassuring at the moment they're closing in.

Originally Posted by Prettyface08

So SHE can't turn off HER computer? That part of her world she can control. No, it's not fair that she's not able to use facebook/myspace/whatever space....but she doesn't have to read it. At the very least she could have peace in her own home.

No, she can't. Because whether the computer is on or not, people are talking about her all over the internet, and she knows it's in reading for the entire world to see.

I don't believe in treating children like they're made of glass, but this sort of attitude is exactly why the situation ended like it did.

Originally Posted by Prettyface08

What if this isn't possible? I had a cousin who was bullied in the first grade and was told that if he didn't bring the bully $.50 he was going to be beaten up. My cousin is smaller than the kids his age and at such a young age how can one "man up". We only knew about it because I noticed a change in his behavior, it only stopped because his mom and her sister took action by going to the principal, the teacher, the bully's mom and finally THE BULLY. I always worry about him because he's so small and I know that it's easy for him to become a target, he's so little. Bullying really bothers me because I've seen how stressed out a child can be because of it.

I agree that this younger generation is kind of soft, but you don't know what another persons breaking point is. Just because you can take being taunted and teased doesn't mean that the next person can. This isn't new, it's just that most of the time we hear about it as a murder suicide. This young lady told her parents, her parents told the school and no one protected her.

Not to mention, what if she had depression (clinical) on top of this bullying? People never take that into account and it's absolutely a real disease.

Sometimes there is no "manning up" I've seen what happens when a kid is mercilessly tormented. At least before Facebook kids could, for the most part, escape it for a few hours once they left school. Think about how it feels to not only be mercilessly tormented at school, but to be tormented with no break. Ever. Knowing that the entire world can read what bullies wrote and it'll follow her forever. In the mind of a teenager who is already struggling, that's massive.

[Ch2tf]

Originally Posted by srmom

Absolutely. But, from reading this thread, there are some who have IMO "blamed" the girl who hanged herself for not "manning up". Others have said, and not just in this thread but on other blogs and message boards, that the parents should have done more, but in some cases (like the article I posted and in NUMEROUS websites about bullying) the parents HAVE done everything, short of selling their house and moving to another city, to try to stop the bullying, by going to school administrators and teachers and advising them of the problems, to no avail.

First off, I think your confusing general discussions/opinions of how teenagers are (compared to previous years) with the specifics of the South Hadley case. Personally, from what I've read/heard Phoebe did do what she could with respect to reporting or getting the bullying reported. That being said, I feel like as a society, we pick and choose situations (often arbitrarily) that we desire kids/teens to be responsible. We let them drive, but then we let them off the hook with responsibilities in situations like this (FYI I've been reading comments from people that the perps in the S. Hadley case are just children and should be "shown the right way" instead of prosecuted). Fitting example.

Originally Posted by srmom

This kid's school supposedly has a "zero tolerance policy" for bullying, but even after the parents had complained, nothing was done. It isn't until someone is actually hurt - as in the torn rectum (it may have been from a wedgie, but geesus, does belittling HOW he ended up having to have his bottom sewed back up somehow make it okay??) that something is done.

In the case of the kid from Texas, I don't recall seeing that the school had a zero tolerance policy but that the followed their established policy, which is most likely insufficient. And even with "zero tolerance" policies, unless they are strictly, and consistently enforced, then they mean nothing more than any other "policy". Does speaking up ALWAYS mean that the solution you'd like to see, or any other solution for that matter, is going to come down...NO and this is part of what Dr. Phil is talking about with respect to the "rose colored" glasses.

A single or a couple of reports at the school/local level are sometimes not enough. And no I don't think the parents in the S. Hadley case did all that they could do, but I also recognize that there were most likely obstacles that prevented them from doing so. And I also recognize that we are now looking at this situation after the fact and hindsight is 20/20.

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

What is manning up? Is it talking back to your bully? Is it going to the principal yourself?

Manning up, or at the very least, being an active agent in your situation is far from ridiculous. I don't condone physically fighting back as I recognize how a situation can easily get out of hand and a cycle can be perpetuated. But if a child (general kid, not nec the cases presented in this thread) is suffering in silence, particularly someone over the age of 13, then no I don't think they are being active in escaping/resolving the situation.

Originally Posted by srmom

I can speak from personal experience on this - I went to private school for years (Catholic) and starting in 7th grade, I was bullied - RELENTLESSLY by the group of girls that had been "my friends" for years! They turned on me for some unknown reason and my life became a living hell. Eventually, I was so stressed that I started showing physical signs of depression - started with getting nausious at the thought of going to school, led to a full blown case of Shingles - AT 12!!

srmom, pretty much the same thing happened to me, at around the same age. The difference is that based on the experiences I had to deal with in life up to that point, as well as my parents also setting a tone of personal responsibility for me, my reactions/actions in the situation were different. And again, I think this is where Dr. Phil is talking about establishing "coping mechanisms" A good example from personal experience that I have is in high school when I was marked wrong on a particular question on an exam, as it was written I answered the question correctly, but when I brought this up to the teacher was told that is not what she meant. Well it's not my responsibility to guess what she means vs. what she wrote on a test. When she proved to be combative and rude with respect to giving me my proper grade, I went above her head. Ultimately, my grade was changed. And guess what, my parents never knew about the situation. I didn't need to go to them and complain, hope that they seek action, etc. because my parents not only taught me right from wrong, but they also taught me how to address conflict/issues/the world. Now do I think this is similar to the cases being discussed, but that is what is what I mean by manning up/being an active agent/etc.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

There is no lack of understanding on my part. I don't even classify what I said as being insensitive.

Just because you don't classify it as insenstive doesn't mean it isn't.

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

That has nothing to do with acting and thinking like an adult.

Hey, you're the one who said a "We need more kids to just 'man up.'" Last time I checked, "kids," unless one is speaking of goats, is slang for those not yet adults, while "man," unless one is speaking of mankind, means those males who are adults.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Yeah mainstream society doesn't give a damn about kids committing suicide, being bullied, having pregnancy pacts, shooting in the schools, wearing revealing prom dresses, etc. until it impacts white kids outside of the inner city public school systems.

They need to be focused on why this is happening beyond focusing on these bullies and acting like life for white kids is supposed to be Heaven--que pasa?! They also need to go beyond attempting to attribute everything to a diagnosable and medication-treatment worthy disorder. This is already an over-diagnosed and over-medicated society. Kids can't even fail a couple of tests (which is hardly a hardcore pattern of behavior) without going to the disabilities services center and getting a documented disorder and potentially going on medication.

/end rant

However treating mental illnesses like they're a silly catch all for emotional problems is just plain wrong.

They should absolutely be sent to a doctor if they show signs of a mental disease. Some doctors do throw out medication like candy, but researching referrals to find one that will take the time to decide if medication is correct or not isn't all that hard.

[Ch2tf]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I was lucky I guess. One girl tried to bully me in third grade and wouldn't let me join her clique but she'd been held back from the fourth grade, and I didn't want to be friends with a dumb girl! After that, I was significantly taller than everyone else and people were always afraid of me, though I would never have been mean to someone purposely. It worked out well.

I'd say, not only were you lucky, but somewhere you were given (by parents or maybe by "nature") a coping mechanism. You were self aware enough to make a judgement about what you did/didn't want to do, and with that you didn't let this chick get in your head.

I don't think saying to kids, and in particular teenagers, that "in X amount of years you will look back on this and see how insignificant it is" is a solution especially because they only think in the moment. However, at the same time, we need to do better about preparing our kids for the future, showing them what's really important, etc.