Politics 2008:The Caucuses and The Dem/Rep Conventions

[nachural]

Unlike a lot of voters, I vote with my heart, not with my head. Meaning, I don't analyze any extraneous factors other than which candidate's stance on the issues are most compatible with mine.

Finally, while you criticize voters who use their head instead of their heart, many times going by your heart will get you in trouble. It is far more wise to really use your head in making such a decision. That means you are actually thinking about the issues and what the candidates are saying.

So, I was just browsing cnn.com as per usual and came across this video of a 76 y/o woman voting for the first time. She hearkens on deepimpact's point about thinking with your heart vs your head. I found it quite interesting. I don't have an opinion on this discussion other than I think people should vote.

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-133521


I'm volunteering as a poll watcher tomorrow, too.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by nachural

So, I was just browsing cnn.com as per usual and came across this video of a 76 y/o woman voting for the first time. She hearkens on deepimpact's point about thinking with your heart vs your head. I found it quite interesting. I don't have an opinion on this discussion other than I think people should vote.

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-133521


I'm volunteering as a poll watcher tomorrow, too.

Wow. Thanks for posting this.

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by SummerChild

KPN,
Now, being an attorney and having studied constitutional law in depth, I don't agree completely with your characterization of the amendments, protections afforded therein or the balance between federal, state and people. However, my real question for you is simply what is the answer to the question that I posed? Is your answer that you are really not in favor of state control but against what you perceive as an overextension of federal control into area into which it does not belong - and you have your understanding of this perceived set of limitations on the federal government based on your personal understanding of the Constitution?

Is that the answer?

I am in favor of state control, because even under state control I am guaranteed my basic rights, freedoms, and liberties as I would under the federal government. The states simply have the right to exercise general powers (with several exceptions), whereas the federal government only had limited powers, again reserved only to what was enumerated in the Constitution.

As far as the basis of my understanding of the Constitution and whether it is a personal understanding of the document, I'm not sure where you're coming from. My basis of understanding as opposed to what other basis?

I ask not to challenge you - just to get a real common sense understanding as to why someone would feel more comfortable with the state governing than with the feds governing.

Again, it is as a means of checks and balances to prevent any possible abuse of legislative power while preserving the rights of the people and of the states.

What is the answer to that (b/c I think you feel more comfortable with states governing - I just really want to understand this). For example, Palin talks about how abortion should be left to states. Is she convinced that a state does more to protect the rights of an individual than the feds, for example? If not, what is this preference for the *state* to exercise power as compared to the feds?

What is the basis for the preference?

I hope this sums up your post in a nutshell, but as previously mentioned, the states have general powers, while the federal government have limited powers. However, our Constitution includes stopgaps to prevent the state government from overstepping its bounds and arbitraily infringing on the rights of the people. Essentially, what the federal government is doing (exercising general powers) is actually what the state governments should be doing, but not to the point of infringing on our civil liberties, which is what the federal government is doing.

So this issue is all a matter of recognition and respect of our basic human rights through the freedoms and liberties we exercise as allowed by our United States Constitution, the balancing of power between federal and state to preserve such rights and freedoms, and the enforcement of the Constitution to prevent infringement of such rights.

In 2008 the Constitution has been largely disregarded and/or manipulated to serve the federal government's own selfish ends, hence the numerous dilemmas our country is in today. My vote for Ron Paul served as an appeal for someone to actively (not passively or flippantly) restore our government to follow the laws as enumerated in our Constitution. I can say in all but absolute certainty that Obama and McCain has not addressed this core issue to a lot of America's problems at all.

And THAT is my primary point of contention.

Thanks,
SC

You're quite welcome.

KAP

[lovelyivy84]

Funny story, had to share from Paris:

On Sunday I told a guy at my church (yes, I went to church) that it wouldn't be a good election night unless I got to see at least one republican's face when Obama won. Petty, but true.

His reaction at the time was to point out that there are probably a lot of republicans who will have voted the same way I did.

Guess what I found out today? He just so happens to be the CHAIR of one of the Republicans Abroad orgs, and he bought me a ticket to the Voters Abroad election overnight party.

So, to summarize, I have no tact, and he's got a lot of class. Or is super passive aggressive. Feel free to laugh.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

I am in favor of state control, because even under state control I am guaranteed my basic rights, freedoms, and liberties as I would under the federal government. The states simply have the right to exercise general powers (with several exceptions), whereas the federal government only had limited powers, again reserved only to what was enumerated in the Constitution.

As far as the basis of my understanding of the Constitution and whether it is a personal understanding of the document, I'm not sure where you're coming from. My basis of understanding as opposed to what other basis?



Again, it is as a means of checks and balances to prevent any possible abuse of legislative power while preserving the rights of the people and of the states.



I hope this sums up your post in a nutshell, but as previously mentioned, the states have general powers, while the federal government have limited powers. However, our Constitution includes stopgaps to prevent the state government from overstepping its bounds and arbitraily infringing on the rights of the people. Essentially, what the federal government is doing (exercising general powers) is actually what the state governments should be doing, but not to the point of infringing on our civil liberties, which is what the federal government is doing.

So this issue is all a matter of recognition and respect of our basic human rights through the freedoms and liberties we exercise as allowed by our United States Constitution, the balancing of power between federal and state to preserve such rights and freedoms, and the enforcement of the Constitution to prevent infringement of such rights.

In 2008 the Constitution has been largely disregarded and/or manipulated to serve the federal government's own selfish ends, hence the numerous dilemmas our country is in today. My vote for Ron Paul served as an appeal for someone to actively (not passively or flippantly) restore our government to follow the laws as enumerated in our Constitution. I can say in all but absolute certainty that Obama and McCain has not addressed this core issue to a lot of America's problems at all.

And THAT is my primary point of contention.



You're quite welcome.

KAP

I guess maybe I still don't understand then. I don't much see how things would be better if everything goes the way you say it is supposed to go. In fact, I think we would find ourselves in much worse shape.
Also, I don't think Obama and McCain have addressed this issue because I don't think Americans generally feel this way. There are definitely some issues with our constitutional rights being infringed upon, but overall I don't think Americans really feel as strongly about it as you do. I don't think anyone feels this is contributing to the problems of this country.

On a side note, I get so tired of the abortion issue coming up. I don't think it should be a federal issue or a state issue. I think it should be a personal issue, meaning it is left up to the individual whether they want to do it or not. I don't understand where Palin is coming from on this.

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

I guess maybe I still don't understand then. I don't much see how things would be better if everything goes the way you say it is supposed to go. In fact, I think we would find ourselves in much worse shape.
Also, I don't think Obama and McCain have addressed this issue because I don't think Americans generally feel this way. There are definitely some issues with our constitutional rights being infringed upon, but overall I don't think Americans really feel as strongly about it as you do. I don't think anyone feels this is contributing to the problems of this country.

On a side note, I get so tired of the abortion issue coming up. I don't think it should be a federal issue or a state issue. I think it should be a personal issue, meaning it is left up to the individual whether they want to do it or not. I don't understand where Palin is coming from on this.

Your post sums up my point perfectly as far as the school of popular opinion goes:

Too many Americans grossly underestimate the true power of our Constitution, and because the federal government abused their power for so long, the majority of Americans have been indoctrinated to think that the system is working as intended, when in reality it is not, and hasn't been for most of the 20th century.

Personally I cannot possibly fathom how our country would be in much worse shape if we still had states' rights for primary governmental power and limited government on the federal level, especially considering our country's current state of affairs right here right now in 2008.

Everyone (well darn near) is upset with Bush for ruining our country, but Bush isn't the cause of our problems. His tenure certainly intensified our problems, but he is far from the cause. And IMHO a new president who doesn't have the Constitution first and foremost on his agenda will only serve to compound our problems.

I think as far as the majority of Americans go, we have taken our freedoms and liberty for granted so long, that we fell asleep at the wheel and forgot to hold our governments accountable to follow the Constitution. And because we slept, the government decided to exploit certain incidents (1907 recession, Great Depression, every war since the Korean War) to justify the need to disregard the Constitution under the guise of "safety and security of our nation" and further bolster their unsanctioned power over the American people.

Since collectively we didn't do our job as a people in holding our lawmakers accountable, we truly cannot blame our government for not doing their job in supporting and defending our Constitution.

FWIW, while this certain doesn't excuse Bush's actions while in office, it most definately explains it.

In my opinion only, for anyone to chastise me for placing a vote which if nothing else was to represent my desire to bring back accountability in our government would be to spit a wad of phlegm on our Constitution and our founding fathers who wrote it.

This is not a ploy or plea for anyone to take any specific action on any matter, just expressing my thoughts.

Now get out there and vote!!

[Honeykiss1974]

I'm watching the coverage and with 195 votes all I can say is GO OBAMA! He is taking counties that in 2004, George Bush had.

If I was the Republican party strategiest, I would seriuosly look at the collaspe of Republican voters. I mean yeah, people know NOW that GW sucked, but still - is it really him that is driving people anyway?

just me thinking out loud...

I would love to be in Grant Park right now.

[delph998]

I haven't logged on in forever, but I just want to say GO BARACK! Go get it babe!

Hey Tony, even your state worked it out.

[darling1]

So how many of us will be in DC Jan 09. I will be there with bells on !!!!!!!

To see Jesse in tears, to see young black men at Spelman cheering. It's too much!!

[BlessedOne04]

Whooo Hoooo!!! Obama-Biden!! 333 votes and counting

[KAPPAtivating]

Just a note to say, tonight has restored my faith in God's ability to have HIS way, and it has also restored my belief in the American democracy. It is more than "Yes we can", it is more like "YES I CAN".

I am overwhelmingly humbled at this point. So many black boys now have a man who may not be in their home, but he's on their t.v. Not as an athlete, not as a rapper or singer, but as their next President.

I needed this in my life, because I am now restored and ready to go get what I have be deserving to have for a minute. Get with me, or get out of the way!

[Velocity_14]

OH MY SWEEEEEEEEEEEEET JESUS!!!!! YES WE DID!!!

[delph998]

Originally Posted by KAPPAtivating

Just a note to say, tonight has restored my faith in God's ability to have HIS way, and it has also restored my belief in the American democracy. It is more than "Yes we can", it is more like "YES I CAN".

I am overwhelmingly humbled at this point. So many black boys now have a man who may not be in their home, but he's on their t.v. Not as an athlete, not as a rapper or singer, but as their next President.

I needed this in my life, because I am now restored and ready to go get what I have be deserving to have for a minute. Get with me, or get out of the way!

So well said! You're absolutely right -- I couldn't agree more.

I purchased my plane ticket to D.C. an hour ago. The entire family is going to witness history in the making with our own eyes.

[DSTKellie]

I have not been on greekchat in what seems like years. But on this special night I just had to say YES WE DID IT!!!! This has been such an emotional night. I am so proud to witness history and watch Senator Barack Obama get elected to be the 44th President of The United States of America. As I look over at my twin boys, I see hope and great things in their future. I can now truly tell my boys that they can be whatever they want to be as black men. I can encourage them and help them to become mighty men of valor, men that will do great things and one day change and lead this country in a might way. I am so ecstatic right now!!! But all I know is that this has really given me and my family hope and we are so excited of the CHANGE to come. OBAMA!!!!!

[AKA_Monet]