Status of all-male chapters

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

It's over.

It ain't over until the fat man f[rea]ks.

That notwithstanding, I personally would prefer the remaining all-male chapters would go the route of Sigma Xi, perhaps even forming an "Alpha Phi Omega Society" or something to that effect, similar with what Alpha Delta Phi did when they encountered a similar predicament.

Originally Posted by Senusret I

They lost.

A mutually agreeable compromise or separation agreement between the co-ed and all-male constituencies would work wonders in resolving this issue once and for all. Your f[oul]ed up attitude of "we win, you lose", does nothing but harbor more bad blood within the organization and only serves to drag out the issue that much further and that much longer. It does nothing to solve the problem, it only creates an illusion that the problem is solved. I guarantee you the issue is far from over.

Hint: that is why we need a win-win resolution that is mutally agreeable to all parties.

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Membership in Gamma Sigma Sigma or Omega Phi Alpha or [insert any other service sorority here] is not the same thing as membership in Alpha Phi Omega.

*chuckles* No shade, Sherlock!

[Senusret I]

I said good day, sir.

[gamma_girl52]

Originally Posted by 33girl

It's not that deep.

Gamma Sigma Sigma is one organization. Alpha Phi Omega is another. Membership in one is not membership in another.

A hamburger at Burger King is not a hamburger at Wendy's. If I am hungry for a Burger King hamburger, telling me to go to Wendy's won't get me a Burger King hamburger.

I feel dumb.
But for the record Wendy's is way better than Burger King.
'Shid I got you now.

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

I said good day, sir.

*looks at Senusret as though he instantly grew a third eye in the middle of his forehead*

*laughs and makes a dismissive wave*. Naraht, do you have any update on the Delta Chapter yet? I'm really curious as to what they're planning to do.

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by gamma_girl52

As long as you have Conventions and the right to bring issues to the floor for voting, it's never over

I was going to add more, but in my lane I shall stay.

You can come in my lane Ranita if you need to. Don't be intimidated.

(I stocked up on nearly 16 years of deference).

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

You can come in my lane Ranita if you need to. Don't be intimidated.

(I stocked up on nearly 16 years of deference).

Deference went out the window when you renounced your Alpha Phi Omega membership.

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Deference went out the window when you renounced your Alpha Phi Omega membership.

What about my A-Phi-Q/Viking membership? (oh, I forget, you aren't one).

Never mind.

[PADFSUGirl2K2]

Okay, must we resort to bashing each other? I don't know much yet but considering we are co-ed, I like it. Our chapter is about 85% female and we still get respect from others here. I haven't interacted with Kappa Delta yet but I guess it is different other places. I just hope that the males who wish to keep A Phi O traditional should realize that there aren't many other options to a service organization besides Gamma Sig and Omega Phi Alpha. If anyone wants to send me some more history about the break to make APO co-ed, drop me a PM.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by arvid1978

I want to address more of your comment, but this sticks out as patently false. We were never founded just for Eagle Scouts; that is a rumor that has been going around for quite some time. Randy/Michael, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Agreed, this is False. Frank Reed Horton was never an Eagle Scout. While looking through the old Torch and Trefoils, I have found several reminders from the National Fraternity to the chapters that chapters are not allowed to add additional requirements in terms of rank achieved in determining admission. This goes back almost to the beginning in that the group of scouts at Auburn that were looking to form their own college scouting related fraternity (and were pointed by BSA HQ in NY to Frank Reed Horton's group at Lafayette, Pitt and Cornell) were entirely Eagle Scouts.

The only change to the scouting membership requirements came in the 1950s (I believe, I'll have to go look) in that membership in other National scouting organizations in WOSM was allowed.

Remember, Brother Bill Clinton was never a boy scout at all, he was able to join Mu Alpha chapter because he had been a cub scout. Also, by the 1960s, some (possibly many) chapters were simply registering those interested in "College Scouter Reserve" with their local council, which defacto allowed any man to join.

Randy

[naraht]

Originally Posted by lee pi chi

Furthermore, I feel that the term "manly strength" is offensive in that it, in some ways, supposes (or at least connotes) that there is a "feminine weakness." But that's just (if I can speak for my chapter) our chapter's opinion.

For further fun on the topic, see the Wikipedia page on Maryland's state motto. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatti_m..._parole_femine

[naraht]

Originally Posted by lisarpotter

I am a member of Omega Phi Alpha, which I assume you all know is based off of A Phi O. I am curious about this situation because I find it strange that nationals would require all chapters to be co-ed. In OPA we are mostly all female chapters, however we do have chapters with male members. We do not discriminate against anyone who wants to join, and yet we are not forced to be co-ed.

Our purpose in OPhiA as far as I know, has always been:

The purpose and goals of this sorority shall be to assemble its members in the fellowship of Omega Phi Alpha, to develop friendship, leadership and cooperation by promoting service to the university-community, to the community-at-large, to the members of the sorority and to the nations of the world.

It does not contain any gender biased language, it simply refers to "members".

It would have been interesting to hear the discussion at convention when this action was voted on. It seems like there could have been a better compromise in the national organization rather than to say make these changes or leave.

By the way... does anyone know if there are any APO chapters still around in Arizona? I went to NAU, and there was a small chapter there when I was still in college, but I don't know if they are still around.

If Omega Phi Alpha is not a social sorority, they are covered by Title IX just as Alpha Phi Omega is.

I would be interested any ideas that you might have as a compromise.

U of Arizona is active and running about 90-100 brothers. Arizona State is under 20 brothers, I think. Northern Arizona University is inactive, however efforts have taken place this semester in trying to bring it back.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

Just for the record:

Sigma Xi chapter was not the first chapter to secede from APO due to being forced to go co-ed.

Theta Xi chapter (Parks College of St. Louis University) was an all male chapter that had to merge with another chapter when Parks College closed down. The chapter they merged with was co-ed and would not allow the all-male group to stay all male, so the all-male group seceded from Alpha Phi Omega and formed a social fraternity which later got picked up as a chapter of Theta Xi Fraternity.

Interesting story.

And pretty much correct. The additional information that I have heard on the issue is as follows.

At a non-APO level... Parks College was founded as an Aeronautical School in 1927 in Columbia Illinois. In 1946 he gave the school to St. Louis University. In fall 1997, St. Louis University decided to close down the campus in Illinois and move all Aeronautical and related programs onto the mail campus.

A timeline for Delta Delta chapter and Theta Xi chapter is at http://www.slu.edu/organizations/apo/timeline.html . To boil down, Delta Delta was chartered in 1944, Theta Xi was chartered in 1950. Delta Delta went inactive in 1971, and reactivated in 1990 (I believe it was reactivated co-ed). In 1997 when SLU-Parks was closed, all of the students at SLU-Parks became students at SLU Main campus.

As such, the question as to how to handle to the two charters came up. I know the Regional Director ended up at campus at one point in the discussion. Delta Delta was a fairly large chapter and I believe that internally had 3(?) families designed to help with giving a smaller group for some fellowship activities. One proposal was to allow the group from Theta Xi to become an additional family, with only male new brothers added to that family. I'm not sure whether that proposal was considered seriously.

I knew that the brothers of Theta Xi chapter had looked into forming a chapter of Theta Xi fraternity and I thought they had succeeded, but apparently that chapter of Theta Xi is not active any more if it was. Theta Xi National doesn't show a chapter at that school and Theta Xi isn't in the list of F/S at SLU.

[naraht]

[QUOTE=KAPital PHINUst;1636531]It ain't over until the fat man f[rea]ks.

That notwithstanding, I personally would prefer the remaining all-male chapters would go the route of Sigma Xi, perhaps even forming an "Alpha Phi Omega Society" or something to that effect, similar with what Alpha Delta Phi did when they encountered a similar predicament.

Alpha Delta Phi was only under internal pressure. They were quite within their legal rights to pull the charters of those chapters which had admitted women and deny those brothers at those schools the ability to use the name Alpha Delta Phi. The Title IX pressures only go one way, a group which is Social doesn't have to be single gender...

As for whether as a solution that would legally protect Alpha Phi Omega fraternity from the legal issues of the society, I don't know...

[AndrewPiChi]

there were several chapters that left the fraternity in 1976

Some formed locals, some formed nationals, all to the best of my knowledge died however.