Sex Change and Membership

[LatinaAlumna]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

If memory serves me right....Ken doesn't have that far to go to become Barbie...heh

He just needs implants.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by ealymc

Joo-joo?

Don't you recognize serious serious tax law when you read it?

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I'd think they'd be given the boot. Our rules clearly specify that a member "must be a man." They do not say "must be a man at the time of initiation" or anything like that. It stands to reason that if they are no longer a man, they are also no longer a member.

Originally Posted by Kevin

I'm sure all fraternities have means by which a member can be expelled. If a member ceases to meet the minimum requirements which a member must meet, PC or not, they're gone. For us, there are other automatic expulsion rules (like being convicted of a felony, failing to pay dues, etc.)

My interpretation is a literal one -- if one's gender is physically changed, that person, nor the state, nor anyone else views it as a genital mutilation. They view it as gender reassignment.

Far be it from me to tell your fraternity how to treat this situation. How would mine handle it? If you're not a man, you're not a member. Easy.

I don't think a largely conservative, old, traditional organization such as mine is going to wiggle around with shifting definitions of gender so that we can keep a person on the membership roster after gender reassignment. They'll just be out.

Kevin;
I generally agree with what you post. However your postings here raise questions:
Are these your POV's, your chapter POV's, or your National POV's/rules/regulations?
And if they are your Nationals, are these your interpretations or are they direct from your National?

And are you referring to undergrad membership or alumni? Or both?

As I posted, I had pledge brother under-go a change, as an alumni.

While others knew about it, I found out while going thought Alumni records from National. Which means, at least,
1)Some data entry person received my Brothers formal request to change name, address, and phone number (among other data including at least one bit of information NOT found in general data bases).
2) My Brother changed it on his own and no one noticed it. However, as I pointed out, my Brothers' change is not a secret.
On the other hand, I do not locate the name of a EX-Brother, different chapter, who I know committed a felony. And is now serving hard time for it.

[Drolefille]

He did say "I think"

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

He did say "I think"

True, however he added a great deal more to it than just "I think".
Which is why I asked him to clarify his posting.

And since you brought this up, what would happen in your GLO if someone switched?
And to keep it simple, they are not an active undergrad.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by jon1856

True, however he added a great deal more to it than just "I think".
Which is why I asked him to clarify his posting.

And since you brought this up, what would happen in your GLO if someone switched?
And to keep in simple, they are not an active undergrad.

I don't think my organization has ever had to seriously examine this question. It's probably something they'd need to hire some tax lawyers to figure out, thus the subject is best avoided.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I don't think my organization has ever had to seriously examine this question. It's probably something they'd need to hire some tax lawyers to figure out, thus the subject is best avoided.

Good answer. If I understand it, your prior postings were just your own, personal POV/HO?

[icelandelf]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

If memory serves me right....Ken doesn't have that far to go to become Barbie...heh

he already has mantitty

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by jon1856

True, however he added a great deal more to it than just "I think".
Which is why I asked him to clarify his posting.

And since you brought this up, what would happen in your GLO if someone switched?
And to keep in simple, they are not an active undergrad.

I don't know.

I would think that as they identify as male they would not be qualified to be members, but it would be something they'd want to leave rather than being kicked out. That said, I think MtF's should be able to join even if they're physically male.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I don't think my organization has ever had to seriously examine this question. It's probably something they'd need to hire some tax lawyers to figure out, thus the subject is best avoided.

I could be wrong, but I don't think tax status has anything to do with single-sex status. Tax status has to do with things like whether the organization is is for profit or not-for-profit. The single-sex/co-ed status has to do with Title IX and whether a university or college can receive federal funds while hosting a single-sex organization. There is an exception for social fraternities and sororities.

In any event, I think the presence of a handful of members who "switched," if a violation of laws concerning status under federal law, would almost certainly be considered a de minimus violation that would not bother the IRS or the Dept. of Education.

[ealymc]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I could be wrong, but I don't think tax status has anything to do with single-sex status. Tax status has to do with things like whether the organization is is for profit or not-for-profit. The single-sex/co-ed status has to do with Title IX and whether a university or college can receive federal funds while hosting a single-sex organization. There is an exception for social fraternities and sororities.

In any event, I think the presence of a handful of members who "switched," if a violation of laws concerning status under federal law, would almost certainly be considered a de minimus violation that would not bother the IRS or the Dept. of Education.

There's all that joo-joo again...

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I could be wrong, but I don't think tax status has anything to do with single-sex status. Tax status has to do with things like whether the organization is is for profit or not-for-profit. The single-sex/co-ed status has to do with Title IX and whether a university or college can receive federal funds while hosting a single-sex organization. There is an exception for social fraternities and sororities.

In any event, I think the presence of a handful of members who "switched," if a violation of laws concerning status under federal law, would almost certainly be considered a de minimus violation that would not bother the IRS or the Dept. of Education.

Interesting post.
However, as I tried to say and point out, I would almost be willing to say that if a person was to "change", this change would happen before school (which I just doudt for many reasons) or afterwards as a grad and alumni.

Or perhaps it is better to say IMVHO the odds of a person under going a change is much higher after school than before or during.

Something to research some day.