Arizona governor signs immigration bill

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by Kevin

That's a judgment call. The people of Arizona clearly think it's worth it. Whether the state can even do this is up in the air. I'll tell you one thing though -- if this bill gets upheld, a lot of young lawyers are going to be sitting for the Arizona Bar and opening up civil rights practices.

Yep - AZ is already a hotbed of first-of-its-kind Constitutional rights trials and awkward social suits . . . the Minutemen have had zero impact on immigration, but have made millions for people who facilitate the "pro bono" suits against them.

It's almost fitting that this law will wind up in front of the 9th Circuit.

The federal government is the only entity which can facilitate immigration. And they need to fix that.

And perhaps I'm not giving AZ enough credit - perhaps this will force the Federal government's hand and cause decisive action to fix a broken system (perhaps by instituting a new "classification" below naturalized, without voting rights etc but with ability to work etc.?).

That could certainly be - but it really just appears to be a bunch of retards like Max who think that a.) this bill will somehow kick millions out of the country and b.) those removed will somehow stay in their home nations. Right - let's add unicorns to the bill, too.

Agreed... and for all practical purposes, the War on Drugs was lost a long time ago.

Yep - and to me, this is identical: a "show of force" mentality for something that doesn't care at all about blunt force. This will require a sea change, and dipshit government officials seem wholly unprepared for it. The answers are actually pretty simple, but who has the balls to go to their constituents and explain "ok - solved the problem by making it easier to get into the country (and easier to send money back)."

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by Kevin

RC, I haven't been to Boston, MA, but do you guys really have an illegal problem up there? This is an issue for which many of the negative aspects do not receive media coverage except through the unreliable right-wing fringe media. Here in Oklahoma, the problem isn't so bad. I deal with illegals, they're good folks, mostly pay payroll taxes under a fake SSN and above all and most importantly, they pay their attorney's fees.... every damn dime. Never had a bad experience. I understand that back home, attorneys can have them thrown in prison for failure to pay their fees, so that might be a cultural thing (wouldn't that be nice?).

At any rate, as you move South, the violence, drugs and kidnapping problems grow much, much worse. Maricopa County is pretty much an immigration war zone. Phoenix leads the world in the number of kidnappings per capita. The hospitals and social service programs are stretched thin, and no, I really doubt there are enough payroll taxes coming in from illegals to cover those expenses.

To reduce this issue to a racial/racist issue is maybe partially accurate, but it ain't the whole enchilada.

I would imagine that any large metropolitan area would have a considerable problem with illegal immigrants--not just the Southwest!

In NYC, there are a lot of illegal immigrants from Asia; what ends up happening a lot with them is people come to "visit" family members and never use the return portion of their trip. Where I grew up, our illegals are those from Eastern Europe who come to work at the tourist attractions in the summer and clean snowbird condos in the winter. In both locations, the illegal immigrants tax resources, and can make living conditions unsafe (in terms of people living 10-12 to a small apartment and causing electrical fires, which is pretty common in the winter).

But, you don't see the legislatures of either state passing laws that allow the arrest of anyone who "looks" like an illegal immigrant from China, the Phillipines, or the Czech Republic. Why is that?

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

I would imagine that any large metropolitan area would have a considerable problem with illegal immigrants--not just the Southwest!

In NYC, there are a lot of illegal immigrants from Asia; what ends up happening a lot with them is people come to "visit" family members and never use the return portion of their trip. Where I grew up, our illegals are those from Eastern Europe who come to work at the tourist attractions in the summer and clean snowbird condos in the winter. In both locations, the illegal immigrants tax resources, and can make living conditions unsafe (in terms of people living 10-12 to a small apartment and causing electrical fires, which is pretty common in the winter).

But, you don't see the legislatures of either state passing laws that allow the arrest of anyone who "looks" like an illegal immigrant from China, the Phillipines, or the Czech Republic. Why is that?

Yeah, there are tons of immigrants in the MD, DC, VA area. I live in a neighborhood in Baltimore that is one block off of a heavily weighted hispanic neighborhood. I'm quite sure that a big proportion are illegal immigrants (personally I don't like the word alien as it makes me think of space aliens or nonhumans.) Every once in awhile they raid the Peruvian chicken places in the area and find some undocumented workers, but nobody tries to blame the entire economy on this group.

[DrPhil]

I agree 100% with what Rev. Al Sharpton said on the TJMS this morning.

He said what many of us said: Having an issue with illegal immigration and crime does not mean that this law is a good idea and people are confusing the debate, as well as shortsightedly justifying (or ignoring) the potential outcomes of this law. That is what posters like Kevin and ASUADPi seem to be doing. This isn't a pro-illegal immigrants vs. con-illegal immigrants debate. This isn't a pro-crime vs. con-crime debate. This is a pro-THIS LAW vs. con-THIS LAW debate.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

He said what many of us said: Having an issue with illegal immigration and crime does not mean that this law is a good idea and people are confusing the debate, as well as shortsightedly justifying (or ignoring) the potential outcomes of this law. That is what posters like Kevin and ASUADPi seem to be doing.

I don't think Kevin's doing that -- his first post in this thread was:

Originally Posted by Kevin

I guess these guys haven't heard of the supremacy clause.

I think Kevin was responding on a background issue -- whether New England states experience illiegal alien problems the same way states closer to or on the Mexican border do.

[AOII Angel]

Hmmm...doesn't sound like all of law enforcement is backing this.

The Pima County, Arizona, sheriff told KGUN9 News in Tucson that state Senate Bill 1070 to deter illegal immigration is a "racist law." He said he has no intention of complying with it.

According to the TV station, Dupnik becomes the first major local law enforcement official to rebel against the bill since Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer signed it into law Friday.

Dupnik called the law "disgusting" and "unnecessary." He knows he could get sued for failing to comply with the law - a risk, he says he's willing to take.


http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/04/28...ople-8/?hpt=T2

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Hmmm...doesn't sound like all of law enforcement is backing this.

I think I remember hearing that law enforcement groups in Arizona opposed the bill. Did I imagine that?

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I think I remember hearing that law enforcement groups in Arizona opposed the bill. Did I imagine that?

Apparently the Maricopa sheriff is all for it. He's been all over the news.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I think I remember hearing that law enforcement groups in Arizona opposed the bill. Did I imagine that?

On NPR last night I heard the higher ups did NOT support it, but in general the actual officers did. I didn't catch the title/name of the person being interviewed, though, so I don't know if they know what they're talking about or not.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I don't think Kevin's doing that -- his first post in this thread was:I think Kevin was responding on a background issue -- whether New England states experience illiegal alien problems the same way states closer to or on the Mexican border do.

Then ASUADPi's holding it down. Cool.

[AZTheta]

First, regarding Joe Arpaio: where to start? His behavior is legendary and well documented. It astounds me that the residents of Maricopa County have not yet voted him out of office.

I am proud of Sheriff Clarence Dupnik. As Andrew Jackson said, "one man with courage is a majority." Someone needed to speak up about how WRONG this law is. It is, simply, WRONG. What is so difficult to understand about that?

That said, the border issues are incredibly complex and troubling. No one in this thread has yet referred to the recent murder of the Cochise County rancher, Rob Krentz, by a suspected drug smuggler. His murder has added fuel to the fire.

http://www.tucsonweekly.com/TheRange...ncher-murdered

Latest news this morning is that the Federal Government is casting an eye at the AZ law, and I say "hurry up."

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by AzTheta

First, regarding Joe Arpaio: where to start? His behavior is legendary and well documented. It astounds me that the residents of Maricopa County have not yet voted him out of office.

I am proud of Sheriff Clarence Dupnik. As Andrew Jackson said, "one man with courage is a majority." Someone needed to speak up about how WRONG this law is. It is, simply, WRONG. What is so difficult to understand about that?

That said, the border issues are incredibly complex and troubling. No one in this thread has yet referred to the recent murder of the Cochise County rancher, Rob Krentz, by a suspected drug smuggler. His murder has added fuel to the fire.

http://www.tucsonweekly.com/TheRange...ncher-murdered

Latest news this morning is that the Federal Government is casting an eye at the AZ law, and I say "hurry up."

So sad. Don't think making the drug dealers carry their immigration papers will help stop them, though. Which I'm sure is your point, Maria.

[AZTheta]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

So sad. Don't think making the drug dealers carry their immigration papers will help stop them, though. Which I'm sure is your point, Maria.

Thank you, Angela. Complex, troubling, complicated... walls and papers aren't going to solve the problems.

But, when the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by AzTheta

Thank you, Angela. Complex, troubling, complicated... walls and papers aren't going to solve the problems.

But, when the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

I think Kevin really started getting into the meat of the problem, but he didn't delve into the whole world of the "war on drugs". No little bandaid will help that issue no matter how badly we might wish it would. I really do feel for those ranchers on the border who have drug dealers running right through their property. What can they do?

[DaemonSeid]

catfight.