Kappa Beta Gamma/Kappa Delta

[ta kala]

Originally Posted by texas*princess

Regardless of whether or not they have received their badges, I would venture to guess they took some kind of oath of loyalty to KBG.

If they felt a closer connection to the girls of KBG, why abandon that and make it into something it wasn't just because they wanted an org with more resources like the other sororities on campus? Or why join KBG in the first place if they "yearned" to be part of a group with better resources?

Or they could have waited it out, formed an interest group and get organized. It is possible that down the road their interest group could be picked up by a NPC.

It just doesn't seem right to join an National org just to leave it to join a bigger one.

When women go through recruitment, they often times look at the chapter members and not necessarily the organization. From their perspective, there is no difference between an NPC and another national group. And how many PNMs ask "So, do you have manuals and leadership conferences and alumnae advisors?" These women didn't know going in that KBG was unable to provide these.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by kddani

TP, do you have any knowledge or info about the ADPi chapter cited by oldu that had formerly been a KBG chapter?

Not TP but since I assume oldu meant the SLU chapter of ADPi, I'm familiar with the chapter and the fact that KBG used to be on SLU's campus, but I'd never heard that they were the same group. Their website is down so I can't page through the history anyway.

Thought I'd toss a SLU alum tidbit in there even if I don't know anything. (Note to oldu whoever you are, there is no "University of Saint Louis".)

[texas*princess]

Originally Posted by ta kala

When women go through recruitment, they often times look at the chapter members and not necessarily the organization. From their perspective, there is no difference between an NPC and another national group. And how many PNMs ask "So, do you have manuals and leadership conferences and alumnae advisors?" These women didn't know going in that KBG was unable to provide these.

I’ve said it before, regardless of whether or not you agree with the process, they followed the rules.

I agree that most women will look at the current chapter membership, but being 18-20 yr olds, it also occurs to most women I know that rush to do some homework.

By the looks of KBG website, it's a little bit obvious what you'd be getting into. The org has only a handful of active chapters and "over one thousand" known alums.

1000 vs. the 140,000 or so that Chi O for example might have is a pretty big difference and would tell me that KBG probably does not have the kind of resources that an NPC would.

33girl - I realize that the girls at the time of KBG's founding there didn't have options, but by the looks of what you & others have said about the situation, it looks like they just chose KBG until something better could come along that went with the school's rules.

For those that asked, I am not familiar at all with the ADPi chapter that was a KBG chapter at one time... and even though it is my own sorority, I can't say that I am going to suddenly agree with it, because I still don't think it's right.

Like Senusret says, stuff like this opens up all kinds of cans of worms. i.e. what if there were an all-female chapter of a professional/philanthropic org that suddenly decided they wanted to be NPC? It's not fair for the organizations that are being absorbed.

I think one of the only reasons some people are OK with this is because NPC has rules that you can't be initated into two NPC groups so it's impossible for a chapter of a smaller NPC to decide they want to join a bigger NPC because they have "more resources".

[shadokat]

I think the reason I'm OK with this is because KD didn't take a chapter from another NPC. That being said, some NPC groups have the resources to find these types of chapters who want to affiliate with an NPC group and all it has to offer, and absorb them. While this group sought out NPC affiliation, I would hope that it wasn't contacted prior to that by any NPC group, because that just wouldn't be right.

It seems to be, and this is no slight against KD, that extension has become cutthroat competitive, and universities that once had no chance to get a Tri Delta or a KKG to come to their schools are now getting bombarded when they open for expansion by ALL NPC groups. So every opportunity is one more feather in the cap, so to speak!

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by shadokat

I think the reason I'm OK with this is because KD didn't take a chapter from another NPC. That being said, some NPC groups have the resources to find these types of chapters who want to affiliate with an NPC group and all it has to offer, and absorb them. While this group sought out NPC affiliation, I would hope that it wasn't contacted prior to that by any NPC group, because that just wouldn't be right.

It seems to be, and this is no slight against KD, that extension has become cutthroat competitive, and universities that once had no chance to get a Tri Delta or a KKG to come to their schools are now getting bombarded when they open for expansion by ALL NPC groups. So every opportunity is one more feather in the cap, so to speak!

It is disappointing to see the NPC as a whole mistreat KBG. I don't think KD was in the wrong here, but the NPC policies should not allow this, they should be supportive of smaller national sororities with the idea of increasing their size and viability, not pecking away at them.

[LPIDelta]

Originally Posted by texas*princess

By the looks of KBG website, it's a little bit obvious what you'd be getting into. The org has only a handful of active chapters and "over one thousand" known alums.

Well that, and the website hasn't been updated since 2004?

[dukemama]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

It is disappointing to see the NPC as a whole mistreat KBG. I don't think KD was in the wrong here, but the NPC policies should not allow this, they should be supportive of smaller national sororities with the idea of increasing their size and viability, not pecking away at them.

Just curious...besides KBG, are there any other smaller national non-NPC sororities?

[DolphinChicaDDD]

I'm not really saying this to anyone in particular, but have you ever had to pledge loyalty to one group and then have to pledge loyalty to another? I don't mean I pledged an NPC and now I'm pledging a APO or anything like that. I mean have you pledged one sorority and had to pledge to another one? I have. I pledged my loyalty to Alpha Theta Phi and then 6 months later, I had to pledge loyalty to Delta Delta Delta. It was one of most difficult things that I, and many of my sisters, had to do. I pledged a local, only to find out 3 weeks later that we needed to find an national because of our local NPC's decision to expand after not allowing it for almost 2 years. The day of our initiation into Tri Delta, I was torn. I had been part of a group, a group because it was so young, I knew very well and had helped mold. I knew the women who created our ritual, and respected them and the ritual maybe more because it was amazing.

My point is, don't throw this women into a group of "how dare they! they pledged one group and are now pledging loyalty to another group!" because if you are going to throw that line around, you might as well say the same thing about people who pledge two different organizations. I'm sure these women didn't take either pledge lightly. They wanted more than KGB offered, but at the same time, I'm sure they still were upset at having to come to that conclusion. From the moment I joined my local, I knew it would only be a matter of time before we outgrew it and kind of in the back of my mind always knew the group would become national I just didn't think it would happen so quickly.

[lucgreek]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I'm sorry but that is one of the flipping stupidest things I have ever heard. You have as many sororities and fraternities on campus as the market will bear. The only time I have heard that a Greek life dept/admin wants x number of groups is when a cap is put on the amount of groups - i.e. when the admin really doesn't want Greek life to get bigger. If that is the case at LUC, then I would hardly say Greek life is on the "upswing."

And if KBG really were pushed out by the administration, I hope every single one of their alums cuts off donations. Although since KBG members have posted about the situation on here and NEVER mentioned that they were getting any kind of pressure from LUC because they weren't an NPC group, I'm kind of thinking that's a bunch of BS.

i don't know if there is an official cap but, until recently, greek life had lower numbers at luc. luc is not a traditional greek school, although ADG was founded here. i'm also not sure if any other fraternities/sororities have tried to colonize here since we've had the 4/4.

i'm also fairly certain the girls contacted nationals and had their concerns downplayed. until someone from KBG nationals says that's a big load of crap, i'm inclined to believe people directly involved in the situation. and if nationals/alumni had no idea of the situation, that should be a HUGE flag that there was little communication between their nationals and their own alumni. since KBG is so small, I can't believe this situation blindsided them.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

^^^ I agree with that sentiment.

My point of view is...where does it end? Like, what's to say an NPC couldn't just pick up a chapter of an NPHC? Or an all-female chapter of APO (it happens)?

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Thought I'd toss a SLU alum tidbit in there even if I don't know anything. (Note to oldu whoever you are, there is no "University of Saint Louis".)

I was like, when did it change it's name?

[nate2512]

Originally Posted by texas*princess

Regardless of whether or not they have received their badges, I would venture to guess they took some kind of oath of loyalty to KBG.

If they felt a closer connection to the girls of KBG, why abandon that and make it into something it wasn't just because they wanted an org with more resources like the other sororities on campus? Or why join KBG in the first place if they "yearned" to be part of a group with better resources?

Or they could have waited it out, formed an interest group and get organized. It is possible that down the road their interest group could be picked up by a NPC.

It just doesn't seem right to join an National org just to leave it to join a bigger one.

Maybe they felt that their nationals no longer correctly pursued the ideals and principles it was originally founded upon so they sought out an organization that did?

They could have dissolved went local and then entertained offers from NPC sororities, but if they were going to that anyway whats the point? We see stories on here a lot about how locals get absorbed into NPCs.

Also, what were the specifics of their own nationals ability to provide liability insurances, lucrative scholarships, and things of that such? If they are paying outrageous insurance and dues to the national and they aren't getting a great return on investment then they do kind of have a right to be pissed.

I am a guy and I am in a fraternity and don't understand all aspects of NPC and smaller nationals and I'm sure I'll get flamed and tarred and feathered for this but its a few things to think about.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

I was like, when did it change it's name?

Oh, yesterday, there was a press conference. That Biondi, you never know what he's going to do.

[oldu]

Sorry about changing the name of St. Louis University -- should have known better. The SLU chapter of Kappa Beta Gamma was the first to be installed after the original founders at Marquette decided to expand and become a national in 1947. In 1975 it withdrew and took the name Kappa Beta Phi. In 1989 it became a chapter of Alpha Delta Pi. That became the fourth name the group has had, as it was originally a local sorority founded in 1928 under the name Delta Epsilon Phi. (The source of the above is St. Louis University and Alpha Delta Pi historical records.)

As I stated earlier the latest change of affiliation from a small national to a larger and stronger one is certainly not the first, nor will it be the last. It has happened many times. At Kent State University SEVEN chapters of AES sororities all left their nationals over a period of a few years to become NPC chapters, most shopping for a new national while still operating as a chapter of their former national. I doubt that any of the AES national organizations were encouraging this action.

[PhiRhoSister]

Here is the info that you want:
http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...t=18414&page=5

Originally Posted by lucgreek

i don't know if there is an official cap but, until recently, greek life had lower numbers at luc. luc is not a traditional greek school, although ADG was founded here. i'm also not sure if any other fraternities/sororities have tried to colonize here since we've had the 4/4.

i'm also fairly certain the girls contacted nationals and had their concerns downplayed. until someone from KBG nationals says that's a big load of crap, i'm inclined to believe people directly involved in the situation. and if nationals/alumni had no idea of the situation, that should be a HUGE flag that there was little communication between their nationals and their own alumni. since KBG is so small, I can't believe this situation blindsided them.