Status of all-male chapters

[emb021]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

I beg to differ. Complaining is easy, that's why everyone does it.

I kid, I kid.

Everyone complains.

But did they do something about it, or just bellyache? (what is sometimes called being a 'backseat driver' or 'monday morning quarterback'.) Anyone can shoot their mouth off on-line or the like. (case in point here)

In APO, changes in our National Org are done at on the legislative floor of the National Convention. If you want to affect change, that is where you need to be. If a chapter failed to get voting delegates to the Convention, its a bit poor for them to be complaining about how things are going. If you don't like it, get involved! Speak up in advance! Attend Section and Region Conferences, go to Nationals. Speak with other chapters and convence them.

[Senusret I]

Ashley Robinson

posted 4/17/08 @ 12:06 AM EST

To say that the brothers of Alpha Delta "just couldn't handle treating women as their equals" is not only offensive, but a grave error in judgment. The brothers of Alpha Delta are, and have been, engaged in a highly cooperative and equal relationship with the sisters of the Delta Nu chapter of Gamma Sigma Sigma National Service Sorority since its inception in 1972, at which time the Sigma Xi chapter of Alpha Phi Omega helped to found the sorority whose members they would come to refer to as their sisters. There are two active Greek service organizations on the University of Maine campus, Alpha Delta and Gamma Sigma Sigma, which collectively provide every student on this campus the opportunity to participate. Furthermore, I consider the brothers of Alpha Delta to be my brothers; my members-in-training have big brothers and I have a little brother, we work together on meaningful service projects to aid the community and campus that we hold in common and we form close bonds of friendship. Never in my relationship with the brothers of Alpha Delta have I felt treated as anything less than an equal or given anything less than the respect, friendship, and appreciation for helping humankind that I share with my brothers. Regardless of one's personal qualms about the separation of the Sigma Xi chapter, it would be wise not to slanderously question the character and integrity of the outstanding young men who comprise that organization. -Ashley Robinson, Membership Vice President, Delta Nu chapter, Gamma Sigma Sigma Service Sorority


1) I found it interesting that this young lady considers the relationship equal -- that's an extremely cordial working relationship, but it's definitely not equality.

2) This is exactly why people need to stay in their own lane sometimes.

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

1) I found it interesting that this young lady considers the relationship equal -- that's an extremely cordial working relationship, but it's definitely not equality.

Some may get offended at this post; oh well, that's life:

A woman doesn't need to have a penis in order to be equal to me as a man.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

Some may get offended at this post; oh well, that's life:

A woman doesn't need to have a penis in order to be equal to me as a man.

Nor does she need a penis to be your Alpha Phi Omega Brother.

[arvid1978]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Nor does she need a penis to be your Alpha Phi Omega Brother.

Huge co-sign to that.

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Nor does she need a penis to be your Alpha Phi Omega Brother.

*edited because I thought the message would get lost in the metaphors*

(at bolded) You are absolutely correct and I have never treated women as less than an equal as an ALPHA PHI OMEGA brother. However, I do respect the desires of those chapter that want to be or wish to be all male. You can respect and support the wishes of all-male chapters without disrepecting women. The two are not mutually exclusive.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

However, I do respect the desires of those chapter that want to be or wish to be all male. You can respect and support the wishes of all-male chapters without disrepecting women. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Failing to provide equal access to the fraternity on any college campus is disrespect of women.

The chapters' desire to remain all-male is now irrelevant.

It's over.

They lost.

Good day, sir.

[arvid1978]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

*edited because I thought the message would get lost in the metaphors*

(at bolded) You are absolutely correct and I have never treated women as less than an equal as an ALPHA PHI OMEGA brother. However, I do respect the desires of those chapter that want to be or wish to be all male. You can respect and support the wishes of all-male chapters without disrepecting women. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Prior to learning more about Title IX and how it directly affects Alpha Phi Omega (we don't have the exemption that Social greeks do), I respected the decisions of those chapters choosing to stay all-male. I didn't agree with it, but I respected it.

Now that I know the law and its implications, I can't respect a group that blatantly ignores it, knowing the harm it could bring to the Fraternity if we were to be sued for violating it.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

*edited because I thought the message would get lost in the metaphors*

(at bolded) You are absolutely correct and I have never treated women as less than an equal as an ALPHA PHI OMEGA brother. However, I do respect the desires of those chapter that want to be or wish to be all male. You can respect and support the wishes of all-male chapters without disrepecting women. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Membership in Gamma Sigma Sigma or Omega Phi Alpha or [insert any other service sorority here] is not the same thing as membership in Alpha Phi Omega.

Why is this so hard to understand?

[gamma_girl52]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Failing to provide equal access to the fraternity on any college campus is disrespect of women.

The chapters' desire to remain all-male is now irrelevant.

It's over.

They lost.

Good day, sir.

As long as you have Conventions and the right to bring issues to the floor for voting, it's never over

I was going to add more, but in my lane I shall stay.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by gamma_girl52

I was going to add more, but in my lane I shall stay.

Thanks.

[gamma_girl52]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Membership in Gamma Sigma Sigma or Omega Phi Alpha or [insert any other service sorority here] is not the same thing as membership in Alpha Phi Omega.

Why is this so hard to understand?

I posted before seeing this one...out the lane I go... 'Shid I'm sorry!!

Honestly are we REALLY that different? Are you just referring to how each organization operates or are you referring to service?
It's not hard for me to understand on an operational level. I can see that.
However I can see how it would be hard to understand on other levels, such as interaction--honestly, what my sister in DN said is how a lot of Gamma Sigs feel. Not all of us, but a good number of us do.

Alpha Phi Omega is our BROTHER fraternity. We work together, we serve together and GSS can directly tie a lot of history to APO. I think that is what she meant by being equal-we work towards the same things, we treat one another the same.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by gamma_girl52

I posted before seeing this one...out the lane I go... 'Shid I'm sorry!!

Honestly are we REALLY that different? Are you just referring to how each organization operates or are you referring to service?
It's not hard for me to understand on an operational level. I can see that.
However I can see how it would be hard to understand on other levels, such as interaction--honestly, what my sister in DN said is how a lot of Gamma Sigs feel. Not all of us, but a good number of us do.

Alpha Phi Omega is our BROTHER fraternity. We work together, we serve together and GSS can directly tie a lot of history to APO. I think that is what she meant by being equal-we work towards the same things, we treat one another the same.

As you and I have spoken in various forums and on different levels about this very topic.... my opinion is that it's not about how APO and GSS can function on an organizational level. I've always felt that the true bond is between the organizations and not the male members of one and the female members of another. My mentality makes it easy for me to accept any GSS as having a bond with me, male or female.

Not everyone has this mentality.

When members of APO who are men would rather have an all male chapter and serve with Gamma Sigs, they miss the fundamental organizational connections our orgs have. Yes, at one point, each org was single gender. Now, neither is. Again, for me, that doesn't make me treat a male GSS any different, socially speaking.

We are reaching a point where on several campuses, women APO and GSS members are experiencing cordial relationships that you and I wouldn't have seen in 98, 99 (when we crossed). That's happening for many reasons, but the biggest reason is (I believe) that women in both orgs have stopped allowing male APO members to be the divisive force that we know has occurred in the past.

Organizationally, GSS and APO have handled this situation differently. I respect how GSS handles the coed issue and I am obligated to follow the rules of MY fraternity, as well.

I believe that an all or mostly female GSS is different enough from APO that it can thrive if an APO chapter goes coed.

I hope that made sense, I was trying not to be too repetitive since we've had this convo before.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by gamma_girl52

I think that is what she meant by being equal-we work towards the same things, we treat one another the same.

By the way, the point I forgot to add.... how does it look if my Brothers can treat Gamma Sigs equally but not potential woman members on campus?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by gamma_girl52

Honestly are we REALLY that different? Are you just referring to how each organization operates or are you referring to service?

It's not that deep.

Gamma Sigma Sigma is one organization. Alpha Phi Omega is another. Membership in one is not membership in another.

A hamburger at Burger King is not a hamburger at Wendy's. If I am hungry for a Burger King hamburger, telling me to go to Wendy's won't get me a Burger King hamburger.