9-11 conspiracy poll

[Deke4life]

OK... so the Building's owner says it was pulled.

And indeed it fell like any other pulled building.

and Im somehow offbase for implying it was pulled... interesting.

Cognitive dissonance must be harder to break than I once thought.

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by Deke4life
OK... so the Building's owner says it was pulled.

The building's owner has recanted, and stated that his quotation was out of context. Another, equally likely, scenario has been offered in its place (in this very thread, may I add).

Originally posted by Deke4life
And indeed it fell like any other pulled building.

No . . . elements resembled a 'pulled' building, but this is not conclusive proof that it was 'pulled.'

Originally posted by Deke4life
and Im somehow offbase for implying it was pulled... interesting.

You're not off-base for implying it - you're off-base for not supporting your assertions.

Originally posted by Deke4life
Cognitive dissonance must be harder to break than I once thought.

I study cognitive dissonance as a career, essentially - it is indeed difficult to break. Much simpler would be simply supporting your assertions, which is all I ask.

[Deke4life]

George Bush could say he was quoted out of context when he said he supported CAFTA ... and then say actually he did not support the Bill and I bet you would believe that too.

How in the world is it possible to take out of context that the owner of building seven said it was pulled!... when he "said it was pulled." what exactly is the propper context?

Hegalian double speak is meant to decieve, and it shoudnt be bought... especially when the answer is right in frot of our faces for everyone to see.

[KSig RC]

Look, the guy was then quoted as saying that he told the FDNY to pull the building, but it fell before that was possible - that's no less viable than your conception of events, but does not carry the burden of proof that yours holds (and you refuse to meet).

Originally posted by Deke4life
Hegalian double speak is meant to decieve, and it shoudnt be bought... especially when the answer is right in frot of our faces for everyone to see.

I have no idea what this means, friend - please don't tell me you've adopted the common internet shorthand of applying the Hegelian dialectic to any speech you feel is duplicitous . . . how absurd.

If you're referring to the Hegelian Fallacy, then we can talk - but I'm not, to my knowledge, violating this fallacy. I feel that the truth is not, in fact, an equal sythesis of currently known facts, creating a synthetic and fallacious 'happy medium.' I don't feel this way because I have seen NO PROOF to sway me from the thesis and toward the hypothesis.

You have the power to invoke the dialectic, and sway me, but instead you'd rather run jaw about 'doublespeak' . . . spare me the Orwellian paranoia, as I care not for it. I care only for facts, logic, and proof.

[Deke4life]

When I refer to the Hegelian Dialectic (doublespeak being a slang description) I am not refering to what you are saying, but rather to those who are manipulating thought processes about the events pertaining to 9-11.

Example:

Thesis
Mr. Silverstein says he pulled the building

Antithesis
Mr. sliverstein says he was taken out of context, but doesn't explain how or what he meant

Synthesis
American people nod their heads as if this makes sense



Crisis
Terrorist attacks us

Reaction
People are afraid of being attacked again

Solution
Global war on terrorism and the Patriot Act etc.

[WCUgirl]

I'm surprised concerned451 didn't come post in this thread.

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by Deke4life
When I refer to the Hegelian Dialectic (doublespeak being a slang description) I am not refering to what you are saying, but rather to those who are manipulating thought processes about the events pertaining to 9-11.

Example:

Thesis
Mr. Silverstein says he pulled the building

Antithesis
Mr. sliverstein says he was taken out of context, but doesn't explain how or what he meant

Synthesis
American people nod their heads as if this makes sense

I'm sure you know that the Hegelian dialectic is not automatically a sufficient process for examining any given issue; it cannot be applied by rote or in a mechanical fashion to any given thesis. The reason is that the given thesis/antithesis/synthesis model chosen comes from subjective reasoning, yet has open prejudicial impact upon the examination of the issues within the dialectic structure. This is an amazing case of that facet of Hegel's conception.

I'm openly disputing your application, but beyond that would simply like to point out the irony of using "doesn't explain how or what he meant" as prejudicial language.

[Deke4life]

Mr. Silverstein said he pulled the Building. Never providing any substantive reason that he meant anything else other than it was out of context.

Dan Rather corroborated the building being pulled live on air when he said the building was "deliberately destroyed"


The building came down in the same fashion that any other steel building comes down when it is pulled

steel beems crumbling like tinkertoys, begining with the classic crimp, symetrical fall, speed at free fall, straight into a nice tiny pile of rubble, all while everyone can see that there are minimal fires live as it happenned - just as a pulled building is designed to colapse

the building not hit by terrorists on the entire opposite end of the block from towers one and two (other buildings were 50 feet away and they were fine) came plummiting down in the fashion of being pulled, the only way in history steel buidlings have fallen this way (pulled buildings), of course all happening after the building's owner said that he pulled the buidling.

But we are to belive somehow that it wasnt pulled. I doubt it.

[Deke4life]

It may not be reasonable for any issue, but I think it works well here

I am still legitimately concerned with the official story, although I do very much appreciate and understand your perspective.

[FHwku]

Originally posted by Deke4life

the building not hit by terrorists on the entire opposite end of the block from towers one and two (other buildings were 50 feet away and they were fine) came plummiting down in the fashion of being pulled, the only way in history steel buidlings have fallen this way (pulled buildings), of course all happening after the building's owner said that he pulled the buidling.

the proximity of, in this case, buildings, to the site of the calamitous event increases the probability of those buildings sustaining varying levels of structural damage. that much is obvious. but if buildings that stood "50 feet away" remained standing or sustained minimal damage, they are the exception, not the rule.

Wikipedia-

In addition to the 110-floor Twin Towers of the World Trade Center itself, five other buildings at the WTC site and four subway stations were destroyed or badly damaged. In total, on Manhattan Island, 25 buildings were damaged. Communications equipment such as broadcast radio, television and two way radio antenna towers were damaged beyond repair. In Arlington, a portion of the Pentagon was severely damaged by fire and one section of the building collapsed.

*
a related abstract
may 2002 development of progressive collapse analysis...
results of googling 'examples of progressive collapse'

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by Deke4life
What about WTC building 7 at the World Trade Center? No one ever seems to remember it, only towers 1 and 2. The government (911 commission) claims it fell due to fire that fell on it from buildings 1 and 2. But that seems strange given that a modern steel building has never colapsed from fire ... and given that building seven was located on the oposite end of the block. Steel buildings have only come down due to bombs (or in the case of buildings 1 and 2 suposedly planes). Some buildings have even burned for days or weeks without colapsing, such as the tower in madrid spain. Steel doesnt melt until about 2000 degrees.

WTC Building number 7 was not attacked by terrorists and was not hit by an airplane and had minimal fires, why did it colapse on the afternoon of 9-11?

Just some questions that I have always had... and have never been able to get any real answers.
I would appreciate your thoughts.

refer to the links in the first post for more info on building seven, or google it.

I remember WTC 7 because it was down the street from where I live. Why would that building be involved in a conspiracy? That makes no sense at all.

ALL of the buildings surrounding the WTC were damaged. All of them. The glass on all of the WFC buildings were blown out, and they were less in the way (west) of destruction than WTC 7 was. The airplanes hit the buildings from the south. WTC 7 was north of those buildings. All sorts of lovely debris, like jet engines, continued to move north. The building caught fire, they were completely evacuated, and there was no water available to put out fires from the fire hydrant system. The water used to attempt to put out the twin towers was from a fire boat on the Hudson.

The conspiracy theory about 7 WTC is ridiculous.

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by Deke4life
Acording to the 911 commision, building number 7 was outside of the debris field of buildings 1 and 2.

Then the 911 commision was wrong. Debris was located a quarter mile north of WTC 7.

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by PhiPsiRuss
Then the 911 commision was wrong. Debris was located a quarter mile north of WTC 7.

FYI, I have an anecdotal report of this as well, from a friend who lives . . . a quarter mile north of the WTC campus.

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by KSig RC
FYI, I have an anecdotal report of this as well, from a friend who lives . . . a quarter mile north of the WTC campus.

My sister, who lived even closer to the WTC than me (I live a half mile north from there,) was freaked out when she looked out her window and saw flaming debris headed her way. She ran out of her apartment, and out of her building barefoot in PJs. She recalls seeing heavy debris on her street (Duane,) northwest of the WTC for days.