Sorority pledge misbehavior

[gee_ess]

Butting in would be asking your daughter to tell you all the 'scoop' on new member period activities, probing for detailed info on the meetings and what drama goes on during them, calling up chapter advisors and complaining or demanding action, giving unasked for advice on daughter's activities or concerns about new member period.

[DrPhil]

You all have your lists of butting ins and we have ours.

[knight_shadow]

Someone say "butt" again.

[dreamseeker]

[DubaiSis]

butt butt butt.

I'm on the side of the mother asking the question anonymously because she's wondering what is SOP instead of asking/telling the daughter too much.

The answer here could just as easily have been your daughter needs to be fighting for her rights! or something else completely contrary to the responses given. How's she supposed to know? In the land of compromise, asking strangers a simple enough question is somewhere in between being no support to your daughter whatsoever and calling the chapter president in a rage. If she has friends who are sorority alumnae, they would also have been an option.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

That's a whole lot of assumption based on little information.

Originally Posted by Barbie's_Rush

Which is what mommy is doing based on the little information her daughter is giving her.

What she said.

[Lightning Bug!]

I don't know why I'm even bothering to voice an opinion here, but the whole thing seems dysfunctional, or potentially dysfunctional, from many angles.

I have never understood sororities that micromanage their members' behavior. This goes all the way from XYZs only date ABCs to an infamous SEC sorority that used to tell their new members exactly what they were and were not allowed to wear on campus. Presumably you do your best during rush to select girls who fit in with your house vibe, not girls you have to remake over in a certain image. Why did all these party girls get into the house if the sisters don't like that sort of party girl? And as for "punishing" a whole new member class, that's hazing and shouldn't be happening. The party girls should go before Standards, if any punitive action is taken, and really Standards is as much to blame as anyone for not working more closely with the membership chair and the chapter to ensure that girls who directly clashed with the house ethic weren't invited to join. I feel kind of bad for the new members who went through rush, were chosen, and now are being told that they are unacceptable. I mean, I get that the chapter doesn't want them going around dancing on tables with their letters on, but did they really have no inkling before and during rush that these girls were likely to do this?

Who knows how exactly the daughter phrased things when she complained to her mother. As several of you have pointed out, there is a wide variety of behavior that could have sparked the concern. It sounds to me like it is relatively minor behavior, since the mother's main concern is that her daughter is getting "punished" along with the others. But there are more serious problems in sororities these days. Cocaine use is rampant among many chapters, and if that is the sort of thing that the daughter is having to deal with, well, then I'd be pretty frightened also if, as an 18-year-old away from home for the first time, I found myself in a pledge class with a bunch of cokeheads. Obviously the daughter joined the chapter because she felt comfortable with the house ethic, and then the surprise was the fact that there's a group of new members who are totally at odds with it. Something went wrong during rush, and I hope the chapter can call in a consultant to help figure out how to avoid this happening again in the future.

Mom, if you're still reading this thread, this is something your daughter is going to have to work on out her own. I agree that it is dumb, in this instance, to punish the whole new member class. I don't think it is a productive way of resolving the situation, and I think it will just create more tension, between the sisters and the new members and within the new member class. I don't think it is going to be very effective for a new member to tell another new member, "stop doing XYZ because we are tired of getting punished." Personal opinion, but that sort of thing works better in a middle school class or on a scouting camping trip or in the army and is not appropriate in this situation. So you have every right to be aggrieved that your daughter has to deal with this, but the solutions you're seeking are not the right ones, because this is the responsibilities of the young adults involved and the national headquarters to work all this out. Just tell her that yes, it is annoying, and you hope she and her new member friends can keep themselves away from any particularly scandalous and/or illegal behavior. But the best thing she can do is express to the more sympathetic sisters her frustration with the whole thing, work to make the rest of her new member class close and positive, and then work hard the next rush to ensure that these types of girls aren't extended bids again, if indeed they are clashing with the rest of the house ethic. She's got a long time ahead of her to be an active, and so this is a bump in the road rather than a major disaster. It will be a great learning experience for her to work through this herself. Just listen to her, validate her feelings, and then tell her you're always there when she needs to talk.

[Barbie's_Rush]

Blasting a chapter's business on the internet based totally on the heresay of one person IS butting in. She isn't a member. She did not witness any of the actions. It has nothing to do with her. She also provided just enough details to cast doubt on a limited number of chapters. Butt out!

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Barbie's_Rush

She also provided just enough details to cast doubt on a limited number of chapters.

That's exactly what I was going to say. Mentioning the conference the school is in and using certain terminology narrows it down a LOT, and this could have disastrous consequences for her daughter.

[AZTheta]

Originally Posted by Lightning Bug!

I don't know why I'm even bothering to voice an opinion here, but the whole thing seems dysfunctional, or potentially dysfunctional, from many angles.

I have never understood sororities that micromanage their members' behavior. This goes all the way from XYZs only date ABCs to an infamous SEC sorority that used to tell their new members exactly what they were and were not allowed to wear on campus. Presumably you do your best during rush to select girls who fit in with your house vibe, not girls you have to remake over in a certain image. Why did all these party girls get into the house if the sisters don't like that sort of party girl? And as for "punishing" a whole new member class, that's hazing and shouldn't be happening. The party girls should go before Standards, if any punitive action is taken, and really Standards is as much to blame as anyone for not working more closely with the membership chair and the chapter to ensure that girls who directly clashed with the house ethic weren't invited to join. I feel kind of bad for the new members who went through rush, were chosen, and now are being told that they are unacceptable. I mean, I get that the chapter doesn't want them going around dancing on tables with their letters on, but did they really have no inkling before and during rush that these girls were likely to do this?

Who knows how exactly the daughter phrased things when she complained to her mother. As several of you have pointed out, there is a wide variety of behavior that could have sparked the concern. It sounds to me like it is relatively minor behavior, since the mother's main concern is that her daughter is getting "punished" along with the others. But there are more serious problems in sororities these days. Cocaine use is rampant among many chapters, and if that is the sort of thing that the daughter is having to deal with, well, then I'd be pretty frightened also if, as an 18-year-old away from home for the first time, I found myself in a pledge class with a bunch of cokeheads. Obviously the daughter joined the chapter because she felt comfortable with the house ethic, and then the surprise was the fact that there's a group of new members who are totally at odds with it. Something went wrong during rush, and I hope the chapter can call in a consultant to help figure out how to avoid this happening again in the future.

Mom, if you're still reading this thread, this is something your daughter is going to have to work on out her own. I agree that it is dumb, in this instance, to punish the whole new member class. I don't think it is a productive way of resolving the situation, and I think it will just create more tension, between the sisters and the new members and within the new member class. I don't think it is going to be very effective for a new member to tell another new member, "stop doing XYZ because we are tired of getting punished." Personal opinion, but that sort of thing works better in a middle school class or on a scouting camping trip or in the army and is not appropriate in this situation. So you have every right to be aggrieved that your daughter has to deal with this, but the solutions you're seeking are not the right ones, because this is the responsibilities of the young adults involved and the national headquarters to work all this out. Just tell her that yes, it is annoying, and you hope she and her new member friends can keep themselves away from any particularly scandalous and/or illegal behavior. But the best thing she can do is express to the more sympathetic sisters her frustration with the whole thing, work to make the rest of her new member class close and positive, and then work hard the next rush to ensure that these types of girls aren't extended bids again, if indeed they are clashing with the rest of the house ethic. She's got a long time ahead of her to be an active, and so this is a bump in the road rather than a major disaster. It will be a great learning experience for her to work through this herself. Just listen to her, validate her feelings, and then tell her you're always there when she needs to talk.

QFP.

Again, it's Chapter Business, people.

And, from my limited understanding of the law, speculating and assuming facts not in evidence will get you in Big Trouble.

So, I reiterate what has been repeated ad nauseum: "Butt out."

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by AzTheta

QFP.

Again, it's Chapter Business, people.

And, from my limited understanding of the law, speculating and assuming facts not in evidence will get you in Big Trouble.

So, I reiterate what has been repeated ad nauseum: "Butt out."

Amen...we've heard one side of a story second hand or even third hand (since her darling daughter wasn't privy to the behavior to really know what is actually going on). We ALL need to BUTT OUT of this chapter's business and let them handle how to manage their new member class. If her daughter doesn't like the chapter, the simple answer is to TALK TO SOMEONE IN HIGHER POWER IN THE CHAPTER or DROP OUT.

[Titchou]

If it was my daughter, I'd advise her to stand up in the next new member meeting and tell the offending women how she feels. I'm sure she's not the only one who feels that way and they are all sitting around waiting on one of them to step up to the plate.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by musicmom

But those of you with teens know they post their lives on facebook and other sights, so not much is confidential to them.

And we also know that this is not a good thing and those teens need to learn that some things should not be spread on the internet.

[Lightning Bug!]

I agree that it is chapter business. QFP to have evidence of whatever negative thing you think I said was rather unnecessary. Nor was I speculating that this chapter, wherever and whatever it is, had cokeheads in it. I was talking more broadly about the conditions in colleges and the Greek system that could inspire posts like the OP's, although obviously it is filtered through her daughter and there is no telling how true or false it is. But in my experience as a teacher, I find it useful to give people some explanation about why my answer is "Yes" "No" "Maybe" or "It depends." The more people embrace the complexity of these situations, the better they can understand human behavior. The correct answer is, of course, yes, butt out, Mom, and that is exactly what I said in my post. I just added some explanation and extra details to help Mom understand that her emotional reaction, in wanting to help her daughter, is perfectly normal, as may be the daughter's own apprehensions, depending on what the "real" situation is. Validating people's feelings goes a long way, especially when you are about to tell them that their choices are wrong, I feel like that is a better way to help people understand why the "correct" answer is what it is. And seriously, this does come from a teaching career in which I've had much better success with this approach than just laying down the law without any explanation. So that is why I had so much commentary in my post rather than just saying "Butt out," even though I agree that this is the right answer. I do understand that you all feel that giving any explanation is inappropriate, whether or not it is a good teaching moment, but I do respectfully disagree, since I was speaking in the abstract rather than about this particular chapter, which I don't even know actually exists.

My two cents, but I know that voices like this are not welcome here, so I will back out, apologize for breaking any unwritten forum rules, and wish you all well.

[33girl]

I believe she may have meant bringing up drug use, etc might not have been a good thing.

But anyway here is a visual aid for the thread.