College's Too Fat to Graduate rule under fire.

[SydneyK]

Honestly, I see it just as testing out. Students with below 30 BMI are exempt from the class just like, for example, students who score 36 in Math on the ACT are exempt from having to take College Algebra.

[pbear19]

Originally Posted by SydneyK

Honestly, I see it just as testing out. Students with below 30 BMI are exempt from the class just like, for example, students who score 36 in Math on the ACT are exempt from having to take College Algebra.

So they have the appropriate level of knowledge in health and fitness, because of their weight?

I guess I just can't see the logic in that. I've worked as a personal trainer and some of my thin clients were the least educated about health and fitness. They just took for granted they could eat whatever they wanted and get by because they'd always been thin. Then they started having health problems, or they got older and the weight surprised them, and they had no idea what to do about it. Whereas some of my overweight clients had all the knowledge in the world, but just couldn't get past their own barriers that kept them from applying it.

(And, for the record, my BMI is not 30+, lest anyone think I'm taking this too personally.)

ETA - I think I've just known way too many <30 BMI people who are extraordinarily uneducated about health to be unbiased about this one. There are *so* many people who are, for lack of a better word, just stupid about health, but outwardly appear to be healthy. I've got thin friends on more cholesterol meds than you would believe, thin friends who will down 10 sodas a day, thin friends who eat nothing but grease and junk... And some of them honestly believe they are healthy, even though their doctors would argue the point. But society tells them they are healthy because they aren't overweight.

[PeppyGPhiB]

Originally Posted by pbear19

So they have the appropriate level of knowledge in health and fitness, because of their weight?

I guess I just can't see the logic in that. I've worked as a personal trainer and some of my thin clients were the least educated about health and fitness. They just took for granted they could eat whatever they wanted and get by because they'd always been thin. Then they started having health problems, or they got older and the weight surprised them, and they had no idea what to do about it. Whereas some of my overweight clients had all the knowledge in the world, but just couldn't get past their own barriers that kept them from applying it.

(And, for the record, my BMI is not 30+, lest anyone think I'm taking this too personally.)

ETA - I think I've just known way too many <30 BMI people who are extraordinarily uneducated about health to be unbiased about this one. There are *so* many people who are, for lack of a better word, just stupid about health, but outwardly appear to be healthy. I've got thin friends on more cholesterol meds than you would believe, thin friends who will down 10 sodas a day, thin friends who eat nothing but grease and junk... And some of them honestly believe they are healthy, even though their doctors would argue the point. But society tells them they are healthy because they aren't overweight.

My brother is a master personal trainer and he repeatedly tells people that it's often the skinniest people that come to him that are the most unfit. They have no muscle. At least when a person is heavy, they tend to still have lots of muscle because the body has had to carry all of their weight around. You want to know who he says tend to have the worst muscle:fat ratio out of all the people he trains? Asian women. He calls it "skinny fat."

[KSig RC]

Look, everyone gets that BMI is not a perfect test, but we're vastly overstating the degree to which it is disputed - it's sort of a classic "so many people think it is overrated that it's actually now underrated" problem. As a baseline measurement, it is as effective or more effective than nearly any other test you can administer quickly and non-invasively, as far as I know (and I'll readily admit to being no expert).

Being skinny is not specific evidence of "knowing all there is to know" about being healthy, but it is evidence of maintaining a healthy weight and body fat ratio. Being obese, however, is certainly specific evidence of being unhealthy - hence why the class is correctly targeted.

There is a perfectly valid argument that the course could do the most benefit if everyone took it, but as currently posed, I don't really see how the school's logic fails.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Look, everyone gets that BMI is not a perfect test, but we're vastly overstating the degree to which it is disputed - it's sort of a classic "so many people think it is overrated that it's actually now underrated" problem. As a baseline measurement, it is as effective or more effective than nearly any other test you can administer quickly and non-invasively, as far as I know (and I'll readily admit to being no expert).

Being skinny is not specific evidence of "knowing all there is to know" about being healthy, but it is evidence of maintaining a healthy weight and body fat ratio. Being obese, however, is certainly specific evidence of being unhealthy - hence why the class is correctly targeted.

There is a perfectly valid argument that the course could do the most benefit if everyone took it, but as currently posed, I don't really see how the school's logic fails.

Thank you.

[AGDee]

Aside from the "Is BMI a good measure of overall fitness?", I have a question for those who have been in college more recently than I. Have college campuses started serving healthier foods in their cafeterias? I ask because, I started college at a "healthy" weight by current BMI standards (although I thought I was hugely obese, which is another story altogether). Given that the only really edible foods in the cafeteria were the desserts, which they placed at the beginning of the food line and very high fat entrees and lots of carbs, it was very hard to maintain a proper weight. The vegetables were all canned and cooked to mushiness (ick) and the salad bar consisted of wilted iceberg lettuce, tomatoes, cheese, onions, bacon bits and croutons. There were no fat free salad dressings back then. Between that, the beer, the pizza, and the food at the only other place you could use your meal card (nachos, hot dogs, burgers, fries), I gained 40 pounds my freshman year, putting me 2 pounds over the BMI of 30. I went home that summer, lost the 40 pounds and went back to school my sophomore year and put them right back on. I went home again and lost it again... So, I'm curious, since our society is, in general, much more health conscious, are healthy choices offered now?

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by AGDee

Aside from the "Is BMI a good measure of overall fitness?", I have a question for those who have been in college more recently than I. Have college campuses started serving healthier foods in their cafeterias?

That very question was asked of the Lincoln official in the interview I heard. He basically said that they can't afford to serve healthier food.

Yeah.

[PeppyGPhiB]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

That very question was asked of the Lincoln official in the interview I heard. He basically said that they can't afford to serve healthier food.

Yeah.

Wow, this would really piss me off if I was a student at that school. Talk about not putting your money where your mouth is!

[sceniczip]

Originally Posted by AGDee

Have college campuses started serving healthier foods in their cafeterias?

We had a lot of options. Even just in the cafeteria we had a huge sandwich choice, pasta choices, stir fry, NICE salad bar, hamburgers, fries, and an area that changed their choices daily. We also had a lot more options in the union. The only problem was a lot of stuff was fried. And I always chose hamburgers and fries. Seriously every weekday for a whole year I had hamburgers and fries for lunch, it's amazing I still eat them

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by AGDee

Have college campuses started serving healthier foods in their cafeterias?

So, I'm curious, since our society is, in general, much more health conscious, are healthy choices offered now?

I can only speak for where I went to college, and I can say, yes, they were much healthier than they could have been. We had a pretty intense salad bar, lots of fruit (we were permitted to take one piece out) and different healthy eating options for vegans and vegetarians. You were only required to be on the meal plan for the first year, but most people stayed on it as long as they lived on-campus.

I looked, and this is what they're offering for dinner at one dining hall tonight:

Lemon Broiled Chicken
Pasta Spinach Casserole
Rosemary Potatoes
Rabe
Braised Cauliflower
Italian Bread
Black & White Pudding Cake

Stir Fry Station
Fried Rice Bowl with Ham
Fried Rice Bowl with Edamame
Vegetable Egg Rolls

Pasta Bar
penne
meatless sauce
napolitana sauce

Like I mentioned before, we always had a salad bar and fruit, as well as a baked potato bar, brown rice and white rice. I eat much healthier now, but this doesn't seem too bad! (Except fried rice with ham sounds weird.)

[SydneyK]

Originally Posted by AGDee

I have a question for those who have been in college more recently than I. Have college campuses started serving healthier foods in their cafeterias? ... So, I'm curious, since our society is, in general, much more health conscious, are healthy choices offered now?

It totally depends on the campus. I travel to different campuses pretty regularly, and the difference between the cafeterias' options are huge.

Some schools have killer food plans/options, then there are some schools whose options are worse than my high school's (which is saying something considering how long its been since I was in high school).

Of all the schools I've visited lately (considering only those schools where I ate on campus), Virgina Tech's quality/variety is by far the best. Miami (Ohio) is probably next in line. I won't list the schools with the worst options, but it's pretty obvious which schools actually care about the food options available to their students.

Kinda off topic, but not totally... This is one reason why I always recommend that students eat on campus when they visit a school they're interested in. If their food sucks, and you're obligated to purchase a food plan, you're committing yourself to at least a year of unsatisfying dining.

[LionTamer]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that Lincoln is a historically black university, and correlated the requirement to the crazy levels of diabetes and kidney disease among african-americans

I think EVERYONE regardless of BMI should have to take a health class to graduate anywhere. Diabetes and kidney disease levels might be at dangerous levels in the black, hispanic, and native american population, but statistics among whites aren't all the great, either. A big part of the health class should focus on good eating habits. But maybe Coke and Pepsi have a clause in their contracts with all these schools that no one will mention how bad their products are for you, who knows?

Part of the same requirement for everyone should be a solid education on sexual health as well, considering the insane STD and unwanted preganancy levels among all young people, but that's another battle and another discussion. At Penn State after I left, I think the choice was health ed OR sex ed - why the choice? Why not incorporate both?

(I'm also all for a swimming requirement, too, thinking back on a non-swimming acquantance who drowned up at Penn State my senior year in a situation which would not have killed a swimmer, but again - that's another discussion)

[AGDee]

The absurdity in that is that the real difference between healthy food and unhealthy food is how it is prepared. It's not a huge price difference to substitute apple sauce for oil in a cake, for example. It might be a little more pricey to use egg beaters instead of eggs. In my grocery store though, a bottle of dressing of one brand is the same price whether it's fat free or not. Same with sour cream. Are beans truly more expensive than meat? I don't think so. It's not any cheaper to serve fried chicken than broiled, or grilled or broiled burgers instead of fried. It takes a little water to rinse off your beef when you are making taco meat, reducing the fat tremendously. Since I've been making a point to eat healthier foods, I spend less money, truth be told.

[AGDee]

Double posting here, but this thread has had me thinking, about my own weight issues, my thoughts in college, etc. I actually think a rule like this would have helped me a lot. As I noted earlier, when I started college I weighed 130 so my BMI was about 24, within the normal range. At that time, I thought I was the most hugely obese woman on campus. My perception was that I was the biggest girl in my chapter. I gained 40 pounds my freshman year, as also noted above and then went home, joined Weight Watchers for the summer and lost it again. The same thing happened sophomore year. I didn't go home again after that and didn't lose the weight I put on junior year or senior year, but I didn't gain any more than that either. I would have been 1-2 pounds away from that BMI requirement. Around the time I graduated, I thought to myself "I'm huge no matter what I do so I'm going to stop fighting my weight and just do what I want". That's when I really packed on the weight.

When I look at pictures of my chapter now, I think "Wow, was my body image messed up or what?" I was gorgeous. I had an amazing body. I had no idea. I have often wondered whether, had my body image been more accurate, I would have ever let it get out of control like I did in later years. My highest non-pregnancy weight ever was 270. It's shocking to me that I ever let it get that bad, but in my head, at 130, I thought I looked just as bad as I actually did look at 270. My weight has been all over the place since that highest weight ever. I got down to 219 at one point, doing Atkins. Then I gained some again. Then I got sick with Crohn's and got down to 159, but that was because I was literally starving to death from not absorbing anything I was eating. My blood pressure was dangerously low, my electrolytes were dangerously low, I was horrifically anemic and was very close to being hospitalized. Clearly, I wasn't enjoying that weight, despite being thrilled to BE at that weight again. I told my gastro that there was no way I was ever going to gain that weight back and he told me that I most definitely would and probably more. He said my body was used to starving and that my metabolism was wrecked and I would be conserving every calorie I could and would pack on the weight very quickly once I was absorbing calories again. At that point, I was losing 2.5 pounds a week no matter what I ate. And, of course, he was right. They removed the diseased part of the intestines and while in the hospital for 6 days on nothing but IVs, I gained 5 pounds. I told him I was very upset that I was gaining weight on IVs and he said I was getting more calories from those IVs than I had been getting from my food. I did gain weight rapidly after that. I yo-yo'd around after that, gaining, losing, then I quit smoking and put on 45 pounds very quickly. It was awful. Last Christmas, I decided to stop hitting the vending machines at work and I lost 12 pounds. I also decided that I wanted to try working out to deal with stress, thanks to DoctorD's inspiration. I would read her facebook status saying she was so stressed she couldn't wait to get to the gym to work it out. I thought.. it works for her, maybe it will work for me too. It felt good and it did reduce my stress. Then, on my birthday (March), I decided that the best birthday present I could give myself was to eat the way my body functions best, which is high protein, low carbs. I build bulk muscle very easily and felt GREAT the last time I tried eating that way. It also works well with the Crohn's, since I can't eat fiber. I knew that eating mostly protein made me energetic. I decided that, since I have a chronic illness that I have very little control over, I might as well control the things that I DO have control over. So, between March and July, I lost about 40 more pounds. I started playing around again, eating more carbs and have only lost a few pounds since then. However, I've maintained 56 pound weight loss now for a few months. I stopped working out when grad school started because managing my time became a real challenge with the kids back in school, working full time, having homework to get done so often. I think I'm in a groove with grad school now though. I'm done with this term and I decided this past weekend that it's time to hit the work outs again. I may not get as many in as I was during the spring and summer, but I need to do it more often than I am now. I'm also restricting the carbs again. I do best if I keep it to around 50 g of carbs a day. My goal now? 43 more pounds, maybe even 50 more. Hopefully by our Convention in late June. Our last convention, I was dangerously close to my highest weight ever. I could be about 100 pounds smaller this time around. I'll have to buy a new white dress for Initiation, but hey, that's ok.

My gastro has warned me that I should NOT go below 150 because, if I get a bad flare again, I could lose 30-40 pounds over the course of a couple months and that would be dangerous. He wants me to keep a cushion. I don't think that will be a problem though..lol. I've never lost more than 40 pounds in an attempt before and usually, when I stop, I gain it back faster. Having maintained this loss for this long gives me more confidence that I can keep going.

But, my original point was.. perhaps a program like that would have made me realize that I wasn't the hugely obese person that I thought I was, at 130 pounds. I can be up to 143 and still be in the "normal" range, per the BMI charts.