You've seriously gotta be kidding me - A "Creation" museum?

[Tom Earp]

And God created Heaven and Earth in six days and rested the seventh!

How long was each day?

Did God just make Adam and Eve and the fearful serpent? There had to be othere things outside the Garden?

Where did all of these huge bones come from?

How big is the Univers and are there others similar to us?

I do not have a clue as I do not think anyone else does either as we were not there nor was Einstine! He was just a johnny come lately to it all!

Heck, he did not know how to run a clothes washer!

[RACooper]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

As for logic-based people...Where did it all come from? As AKA stated (I think), some people ask why, as opposed to "how". I think a lot of people have trouble with the concept that everything we know of happened by chance. For me, and a lot of other people I know, I just can't wrap my mind around the idea that everything just fell into place. Maybe I'm just not well schooled in science or gifted with a scientific mind, but I just can't look around, look at how things function, etc...and think "what a coincidence that all this came together like it did."

You'd be hard pressed to find any of the "hardcore" Evolutionary Biologists or Paeleoanthropologists that give any stock to 'chance' - they tend to be very "cause and effect" people (remember Einstien's quote about God not rolling dice?) - where everything has a reason and origin, be it biological, enivromental, geological, astronomical, chemical, botanical, ecological, etc. It's one of the things that drives science really... Hence the whole "how" question that is always asked ("why" being much more of a grey area - at least in the philosphical sense) in any of these fields - what lead to any particular point or change? how did the evolutionary 'tree' develop? how did Homo Sapien spread? how did/are enviromental pressures influence adaptive changes? It's like a snowball effect really, the more you look into it the more you keep looking to seek further answers or clarify conclusions that have been reached.

I agree that those challenging evolution or whatever should do so on a scientific level. Then again, I don't think it makes someone an idiot to go "that just doesn't make sense to me".

In general I agree - but if the person doesn't at least attempt to make some sense of it, then I'd say they are an idiot... but then again I'd say that of anyone who doesn't try and at least expand their knowledge or understanding.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

And God created Heaven and Earth in six days and rested the seventh!

How long was each day?

Did God just make Adam and Eve and the fearful serpent? There had to be othere things outside the Garden?

Where did all of these huge bones come from?

How big is the Univers and are there others similar to us?

I do not have a clue as I do not think anyone else does either as we were not there nor was Einstine! He was just a johnny come lately to it all!

Heck, he did not know how to run a clothes washer!

I hope a fearful serpent eats your face.........soon.

[AKA_Monet]

First: The April 9th issue of Newsweek has a very interesting article on religion vs. atheism which includes a discussion on creationism vs. evolution by two well known proponents on each time.

Originally Posted by shinerbock

However, I think a substantial portion of the population simply dislikes the attitude of the modern scientific community. History has shown, and will continue to show, that science itself is evolutionary. I think this warrants a bit of caution when proclaiming truth. I'm not saying the theories are going to be entirely different a century from now, but I certainly wouldn't be surprised to find that they've been augmented to a level making some current factual assertions look foolish. Religion aside, I know a lot of people with logic-based reasoning that have trouble getting their mind around currently advocated origin theories. I'm one of them. Thus, it gets a bit annoying to have a community saying "you're a %#$@!^% idiot if you question this." I guess I'm just reluctant, in almost any matter, to assert that "we know" something, especially in such a haughty manner.

I know my professor I work for who is ethnically Jewish, but an avowed atheist stated how angry he would get if someone came to him regarding "creationism". He said that anyone that states things should be arrested. Ironically, I just hope he never gets very, very sick... And at the rate he is going, that might happen...

Interesting you say that science itself evolves. Yes, it does. One answers one question, there is always another question to answer... That is why science is the enigmatic puzzle that it is. It is what drives us scientists.

I'm certainly not a person who has a problem with teachers explaining evolution and the theories involved in the classroom. I don't even care if ID or Creationism or whatever isn't taught beside it, though I do think it should be mentioned that there is some opposition. As I said, my biggest concern is the hostility towards those who question or believe differently. I know you said Christians can believe what they want, but that doesn't mean people will let them do so without affront. Hell, the candidates reluctant to raise their hand at the GOP debate got absolutely slaughtered in the media (I also haven't seen similar questions asked to democrats). This is the kind of thing I'm talking about. Does it really make a difference? Does a reluctance to believe fully in evolution make an otherwise intelligent person unfit for leadership?

All people are questioned on their "moral barometers". I think it unfair to make a litmus test of a candidate's personal past. But, I am not naive to think that those ideas factor for votes.

IMHO, a lot of people have lost their "faith" in US... That is how we are hurting, generally. It has started showing up in the major medical journals: Science, Nature, JAMA and NEJM.

Well, like I stated somewhere on GC, when I start to teach some basic concepts in biology, I have to teach the concept about DG or the Gibbs free energy requirement for reactions. It is involved in the calculations of the Laws of Thermodynamics. Without these laws we cannot discuss how and why cells divide. These concepts are in place, provable my mathematics and repetitively tested to suggest that these are taking place.

All humans are evolving. But evolutionary time is millions of years. What will we be millions of years later? Probably nothing because we will become extinct...

One thing is certain, you were born on Earth and you will die... Everyone has had it happen to them who is alive today. Whatever happens before and afterward, I have not a clue. And although I would love to think there is more, and I am not fine with being worm feed. But, that's just me...

[AlexMack]

When Darwin wrote his theory, he assumed that the fossil record would prove what he'd written. For years and years it didn't but now we're finding creatures that agree with the theory. A lot of creationists smirked for years because we didn't have those vital missing links and now they're showing up.

My dad is a strong christian and a man of science. I like his version of fixing creationism and evolution in his mind, it makes sense (because he doesn't take the bible story literally). He believes that Adam and Eve may have been the first self-aware, intelligent humans, not the first humans period.

I'm not saying it's wrong to be into creationism, but I do think it's wrong to try and shove science aside in order to teach that doctrine. If you are a christian, it's totally feasible for evolution and creationism to co-exist. If you saw the documentary Jesus Camp, it is so frustrating to see one of the mothers homeschooling her kids and basically brainwashing fundamentalist tripe into them. One of the kids watches a video that claims that the earth is only 6,000 years old. Not five minutes later, the mother prompts her child to say (I'm not kidding, if you haven't seen this yet, go watch it!), "science doesn't prove anything."

I still have trouble seeing why people insist that ID be taught in school alongside evolution. ID is a judeo-christian belief, not a scientic theory that's been recreated in a controlled environment with more and more evidence being discovered to support it.

Believe it all you want, but stop trying to toss aside evolution for a religious doctrine.

Was I redundant? I feel like I was redundant. I didn't get enough sleep last night.

[AKA_Monet]

Interesting that this article should pop up on my email notifications:

Communicating Science...

Science 1 June 2007:
Vol. 316. no. 5829, p. 1286
DOI: 10.1126/science.1141343
Prev | Table of Contents | Next

Books
COMMUNICATING SCIENCE:
Because Science Matters
Barbara Kline Pope*


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A Scientist's Guide to Talking with the Media
Practical Advice from the Union of Concerned Scientists
by Richard Hayes and Daniel Grossman
Rutgers University Press, New Brunswick, NJ, 2006. 228 pp. Paper, $18.95. ISBN 9780813538587.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recently, I was sitting with my five-year-old son on a dingy yellow leather chair in the uncomfortable quiet of our dermatologist's vast waiting room. As I was whisper-reading a Magic School Bus book to him, I heard the words, "Well, I can sort of believe in evolution…" Immediately looking up, I saw a woman in her mid-30s with an open book on her lap. She was relating her opinion to a retiring elderly man seated beside her. I listened intently, hoping for a lively discussion about a topic that is occupying much of my time these days. She continued, "but I just can't see that the big bang really happened."

Most of us are familiar with the dismal state of science literacy. Basic science concepts and facts escape many people. A majority of Americans say that they do not accept the validity of some of the most established scientific theories--as witnessed on that visit to the doctor. And perhaps the most important feature of the woeful state of public understanding of science is the average American's lack of a firm grasp of the process of science itself (1).

[DSTRen13]

Originally Posted by Rudey

I've never actually met someone that believes in Creationism. I mean I know people who believe in Adam & Eve and the whole bit but they either integrate evolution into it or they simply never thought twice about how the two go together. As far as I'm concerned, those crazy freaks are on tv only.

-Rudey

You're lucky. I was raised in a church that very, very much believes in creationism. And have encountered people at every level in my education/life in general who have very firmly believed in creation science (we had the kid in our earth science class lecture, at a major tech university, that tried to argue with the professor on this stuff - wth??).

[RACooper]

I'll second the "you're lucky" statement - I live a couple blocks away from the "Prayer Sanctuary" (a 'sub-church' of the "Prayer Palace") one of only two 'mega-churches' in Ontario (the other being the Palace one). The 'churches' are hardcore Southern Baptists and very evangelical, I get more doorstep 'witnessing' from them than the Jehova's Witnesses down the street. So I get the standard from them: Bible is literal truth, Creationism, Revelations coming true, condemnation of modern society, all other faiths are bad, Catholics aren't 'christian', Jack Chick tracts/pamphlets, etc. ~ very, very low on the list of folks I like to see darkening my doorstep.

[UGAalum94]

Jack Chick: the first time I saw some, I didn't think it was real. I thought it had to be a parody. Nope.

Look! Now they are available in Spanish: http://www.chick.com/default.asp

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by RACooper

I'll second the "you're lucky" statement - I live a couple blocks away from the "Prayer Sanctuary" (a 'sub-church' of the "Prayer Palace") one of only two 'mega-churches' in Ontario (the other being the Palace one). The 'churches' are hardcore Southern Baptists and very evangelical, I get more doorstep 'witnessing' from them than the Jehova's Witnesses down the street. So I get the standard from them: Bible is literal truth, Creationism, Revelations coming true, condemnation of modern society, all other faiths are bad, Catholics aren't 'christian', Jack Chick tracts/pamphlets, etc. ~ very, very low on the list of folks I like to see darkening my doorstep.

Oh no, not Jack Chick. That guy's CRAZY.

Apparently Catholics worship a Babylonian goddess, Dungeons and Dragons is the stairway to hell, Halloween will send you to hell, oh yes, and the Vatican is sponsoring Nazism and encouraging violence against the Jews.

*vomit*

[susan314]

Wish I had seen this thread before the weekend...I spent the weekend in that area of Kentucky and saw several billboards for the "Creation Museum."

I assumed that it couldn't possibly be "Creation Museum" in the sense of creationism - I thought the "Creation" was some sort of play on words, like perhaps a hands on art museum where children were able to "create" works of art.

See...GC is educational. lol

[AlexMack]

Originally Posted by RACooper

Jack Chick tracts/pamphlets, etc. ~ very, very low on the list of folks I like to see darkening my doorstep.

I have GOT to find the Jack Chick parodies, they're hilarious!

[RACooper]

Well it looks like the Canadian fundies/rednecks/inbreds have built themselves a Creation Museum up here as well... no surprises that it's in Alberta..

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../National/home

[JonInKC]

Originally Posted by RACooper

Well it looks like the Canadian fundies/rednecks/inbreds have built themselves a Creation Museum up here as well... no surprises that it's in Alberta..

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../National/home

So people who believe in a literal interpretation of the Genesis account are rednecks and inbreds...wow.

[RACooper]

Originally Posted by JonInKC

So people who believe in a literal interpretation of the Genesis account are rednecks and inbreds...wow.

Believe me those are the nicest terms I could think of in refering to these ignorant tools.