this girls parents should be shot.....

[James]

Blueangel. Stop Stop Stop.

You are seeking to redefine the argument on the basis of an unproven/unsuggested presuppositon. You have not shown that there is even the smallest chance this kid has PW syndrome.

Nor have you made any reference to the myriad other symptoms that a PW-child would be blatantly manifesting all her life.

You persist in defending these parents for no discernible reason. Do they pay you?

Also, if the child had a medical problem, the parents would be even more at fault for not treating the child properly.

If they have just overfed an otherwise healthy kid . . that makes them simply stupid.

If they have failed to treat an underlying medical condition . . . that makes them stupid and malicious.

To change the situation a bit, if the child had some bacterial infection that made her fat, and required life long medication, I doubt you would be sympathetic to the parents if they didn't give her the medication because the child complained and she had uncomfortable side effects.

Oh, and hasn't the child lost a lot of weight? From restricting her calories?

Originally Posted by blueangel

HOWEVER-- With PW Syndrome, a child must be put on an EXTREMELY limited low calorie diet. Feeding her normally will make a child obese.

Have you ever skipped a few meals and felt what it's like to have hunger pains? To have such a need to eat that it's painful? That's what people with PW feel like all the time.

Now, imagine you have a child with PW who is in pain all the time because she always feels like she's being starved. Then add to that -- that you must only feed her a few hundred calories a day. Do you realize how difficult that can be for a parent?

If the parents are just over feeding her, and nothing is medically wrong with the child.. then yes, I agree.. that is abuse. However, if she has PW or another disorder, then I wouldn't be so quick to put blame on the parents.

[Kevlar281]

Anyone find it funny that there is an M&M's banner ad?

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by CutiePie2000

Yes, that's right. I just went on Wikipedia and dug a lil' deeper.

Yeah, I'm not sure if remember more from my abnormal psych class or an episode of Law & Order: SVU. Now, if the parents just wanted money and fame and it wasn't a psychological issue wanting sympathy and attention (there's a distinct difference) that's just plain malingering. It's like shaving your kids head, and making her sick just for the cancer donations instead of for people saying "oh it's got to be so difficult being you, how can I help you"

That was the L&O episode but I think she turned out to just be a shitty mom and not a psych patient

[blueangel]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

If she has a disorder, the parents STILL let her get this heavy. You'd think they'd have put her on a reduce calorie diet before now. But no, gotta give their little rolling angel as much as she wants. Letting your child get that heavy without intervention, disorder or no, is the parents fault.

Placing blame on a disorder is just one more instance of people failing to take responsibility for themselves and, in this case, their children. It's not like she was slightly overweight. She ROLLED. A doctor would have picked up on it before she needed admittance to a hospital, if they'd actually gone and seen one.

I think the reason I have more sympathy for parents of children suffering from this disorder (and we don't even know if she has it-- but assuming she does) is because I had a child with it in one of my judo classes. I had a "project smile" class for children and adults with mental and physical challenges.

One of the girls had this disorder, and she was very obese. Her parents put her in my class hoping the physical exercise would help. We talked at length about her problem, and her mother was in tears explaining to me about how difficult it was to withhold food from her daughter who was in constant physical distress. Picture feeling like you haven't eaten for three days.. and picture what it would feel like 24 hours a day. THAT's what these kids feel like all the time.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by blueangel

I think the reason I have more sympathy for parents of children suffering from this disorder (and we don't even know if she has it-- but assuming she does) is because I had a child with it in one of my judo classes. I had a "project smile" class for children and adults with mental and physical challenges.

One of the girls had this disorder, and she was very obese. Her parents put her in my class hoping the physical exercise would help. We talked at length about her problem, and her mother was in tears explaining to me about how difficult it was to withhold food from her daughter who was in constant physical distress. Picture feeling like you haven't eaten for three days.. and picture what it would feel like 24 hours a day. THAT's what these kids feel like all the time.

That's understandable, but that mother was trying. This child's parents had to have been neglegent in some way. I have sympathy for people who suffer from disorders, but not for people who recklessly endanger their child. Even if she has the disorder, her parents were clearly not trying as her weight dropped very quickly upon hospitalization.

[blueangel]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

That's understandable, but that mother was trying. This child's parents had to have been neglegent in some way. I have sympathy for people who suffer from disorders, but not for people who recklessly endanger their child. Even if she has the disorder, her parents were clearly not trying as her weight dropped very quickly upon hospitalization.

OK, I see your point.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

How can someone get that heavy just by a disease alone, without a tumor being involved? I mean, some major over-eating has to be going on. I think the only reason why the parents still have custody of this girl is the fact that this is a rare case. I though protective services take kids away from parents in circumstances that can be hazardous to them. They are slowly killing this kid.

We have genetically modified rats and mice that become obese when fed a normal 4% fat rodent chow diet.

They are call the OLEFT rats and the Ob/Ob mice.

For the mice they do not make this protein called Leptin. So they eat uncontrollably even during times of sleep. The leptin is made from fat tissue and is sent up to the arcuate nucleus of the brain to tell these animals they have reached satiety.

I think the OLEFT rats have similar problems.

This issue in this girl may also be glandular, either thyroid or adreals. I forget the disease names but there may be similarities with Graves.

But without the path report, there is no way to go down with the differentials.

And it is true a kid may not be able to cook for himself or herself, so they are consuming large amounts of carbohydrates, monosacchrides possibly with starches. There would be more muscle mass if it was all protein. And as always, with carbs there's fats. So if her parents were neglectful, this kid would have to eating nutrient-poor foods abundantly like candy, sodas, fruit loops, breads, etc. unrestrained for 2 years.

Most babies that gain weight at 2 years old are automatically put on caloric restrictive diet. Now, whether the parents adhere to the PCP's recommendations is a different story.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

We have genetically modified rats and mice that become obese when fed a normal 4% fat rodent chow diet.

They are call the OLEFT rats and the Ob/Ob mice.

For the mice they do not make this protein called Leptin. So they eat uncontrollably even during times of sleep. The leptin is made from fat tissue and is sent up to the arcuate nucleus of the brain to tell these animals they have reached satiety.

I think the OLEFT rats have similar problems.

This issue in this girl may also be glandular, either thyroid or adreals. I forget the disease names but there may be similarities with Graves.

But without the path report, there is no way to go down with the differentials.

And it is true a kid may not be able to cook for himself or herself, so they are consuming large amounts of carbohydrates, monosacchrides possibly with starches. There would be more muscle mass if it was all protein. And as always, with carbs there's fats. So if her parents were neglectful, this kid would have to eating nutrient-poor foods abundantly like candy, sodas, fruit loops, breads, etc. unrestrained for 2 years.

Most babies that gain weight at 2 years old are automatically put on caloric restrictive diet. Now, whether the parents adhere to the PCP's recommendations is a different story.

AKA Monet the big issue is that the kid couldn't actually walk herself to the kitchen, and unless her parents put the food under the counter instead of above she probably couldn't reach it.

I still can't get past the fact that she ROLLED everywhere.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

AKA Monet the big issue is that the kid couldn't actually walk herself to the kitchen, and unless her parents put the food under the counter instead of above she probably couldn't reach it.

I still can't get past the fact that she ROLLED everywhere.

Well, she could have used the toys that didn't break to scoot herself around, then roll over to open the door to gain access to poor food choices.

Since there is a picture of her sitting up, it is possible that she could stand. Then tumble around till she had to roll.

From what I remember speaking to one of the foremost experts on PWS, is that they have mild mental retardation. But I could be wrong.

It did not seem like this young girl had the characteristics of mental retardation from the pictures. Which means, she vocalized and cried at stimuli. Meaning her parents just kept feeding her to "shut her up" because they couldn't stand the whining or the crying...

Those early cues from parents are key in child rearing. If a baby does not receive proper parental cues, their neural development is impaired. This process occurs from day 0...

Feeding behavior is intimately linked to that.

Since I have prove my words:

Dr. Terry Miller, pediatrician. Health Disparities Conference at Legislative Day at the State Capitol. Olympia, WA Public Health Service.

[Drolefille]

There's been no indication that the child isn't otherwise "normal" develpmentally speaking. It just seems like horrendous parenting.

Although the image of the girl standing and then... tumbling until she reaches food is rather amusing. It wouldn't be too hard to move food out of the way of a six year old who can't climb into things.

[blueangel]

Originally Posted by James

Blueangel. Stop Stop Stop.

You are seeking to redefine the argument on the basis of an unproven/unsuggested presuppositon. You have not shown that there is even the smallest chance this kid has PW syndrome.

Nor have you made any reference to the myriad other symptoms that a PW-child would be blatantly manifesting all her life.

You persist in defending these parents for no discernible reason. Do they pay you?

Also, if the child had a medical problem, the parents would be even more at fault for not treating the child properly.

If they have just overfed an otherwise healthy kid . . that makes them simply stupid.

If they have failed to treat an underlying medical condition . . . that makes them stupid and malicious.

To change the situation a bit, if the child had some bacterial infection that made her fat, and required life long medication, I doubt you would be sympathetic to the parents if they didn't give her the medication because the child complained and she had uncomfortable side effects.

Oh, and hasn't the child lost a lot of weight? From restricting her calories?

James... are you doing some selective reading here? Each time I mentioned PW syndrome in relation to this child, I was careful to say that we don't know if she has it. I think people are too quick to judge other parents when they don't have all of the facts.

Further, when Drolefille made her last post to me I said, "I see your point."

Now, what is your problem?

[James]

Blueangel, review the post order, your agreement with drolefile came after my post. I don't believe I have commented about your genetic disease argument since then.

And yes you did mention that the child may not have the disease, however again go back and read your posts.

You kept countering other people's contention that the parents were at fault by using the child's theoretical and unproven disease state. . . her not having it was an after thought.

Also, you kept presenting that even though the counter argument was that the disase was ultimately irrelevant to the parental responsibility to STOP over feeding.

So you persisted in a flawed argument that was based more on emotion than anything else.

Originally Posted by blueangel

James... are you doing some selective reading here? Each time I mentioned PW syndrome in relation to this child, I was careful to say that we don't know if she had it. I think people are too quick to judge other parents when they don't have all of the facts.

Further, when Drolefille made her last post to me I said, "I see your point."

Now, what is your problem?

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by blueangel

I was careful to say that we don't know if she has it. I think people are too quick to judge other parents when they don't have all of the facts.

So does PW syndrome go undetected for years before it shows up on tests or something? Are the doctors and family not releasing this syndrome info to the public because they'd rather the parents be blamed or something? Or is it just a matter of inconsistent results of the hospitals' tests like what often happens with Lupus?

As already stated, this little girl has been to hospitals, has had television segments dedicated to her, and has a website. No mention of any disorder. However, there was a televised story on another little girl about a year ago who had this disorder, I believe. It was documented and that's the first thing they mentioned when the television show aired her story. Maybe this is the same little girl, I don't know.

The good thing is that she HAS lost 100 lbs. I hope she can make up for the damage the extra weight did.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

So does PW syndrome go undetected for years before it shows up on tests or something? Are the doctors and family not releasing this syndrome info to the public because they'd rather the parents be blamed or something? Or is it just a matter of inconsistent results of the hospitals' tests like what often happens with Lupus?

As already stated, this little girl has been to hospitals, has had television segments dedicated to her, and has a website. No mention of any disorder. However, there was a televised story on another little girl about a year ago who had this disorder, I believe. It was documented and that's the first thing they mentioned when the television show aired her story. Maybe this is the same little girl, I don't know.

The good thing is that she HAS lost 100 lbs. I hope she can make up for the damage the extra weight did.

She's already agreed to this point btw.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

She's already agreed to this point btw.

Has she answered those questions?