Michael Richards aka "Kramer" racist?

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Why are you so sensitive about how I feel about this?

haha, you don't have to turn it around on me.....it is quite obvious that you got somewhat flustered over us saying that we didn't think he was a racist.

[_Opi_]

Originally Posted by macallan25

No actually, he wouldn't be a racist...he was racially insensitive. Whether or not you think he is racist because he used the term is besides the point. Just because a person thinks something about you doesn't necessarily make it true. You don't know him well enought to deem him a racist.......if he went on a spiel about how he thinks whites are superior to blacks, then I would call him a racist.

I'm sorry but if someone said nigger or "nigguh" to me I would think he/she would be racist. I wouldn't dwell on their why they would say something, but as long as it was "unwelcome" and "unnecessary", I would deem them to be racist. Otherwise, WHY would that person say something racist if they didn't want to be seen that way???

[Reds6]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I mean I think those guys calling him a cracker is racially insensitive i guess, but its not like i'm outraged or offended. I just think you can go for something that would be the most hurtful in an out of control situation (n-word) without being a racist. I think most people wouldn't do such things, but some people have better control than others. I have been around people who you could say were racially insensitive, but I don't know that they were really racist. They didn't think they were better than people because of their race, but they were against certain parts of black culture, and used generic racial slurs to describe them. I don't know what i'd call it, but I don't really know that I can say they're racist. Also, note that i'm not apologizing for anyone, its still pretty bad no matter what you're motives are. However, I think a lot of people who would use those terms (not just racial, any type of slurs) often will use them because terms like "motherf*****" really don't have the hurtful affect people may be looking for when they're enraged.

So saying a black person should be basically lynched for going at a white man isn't racist?

[cutie_cat_4ever]

Originally Posted by macallan25

No actually, he wouldn't be a racist...he was racially insensitive. Whether or not you think he is racist because he used the term is besides the point. Just because a person thinks something about you doesn't necessarily make it true. You don't know him well enought to deem him a racist.......if he went on a spiel about how he thinks whites are superior to blacks, then I would call him a racist.

Well, nowadays, even if you said the n-word, you may not be seen as a racist due to the fact that the entertainment/music world has been overusing this word that people have been become insensative about it.

However, on the other hand, saying that a certain race 50 years should be hung upside down and have a f- fork stuck in their a--? If you don't call that racist, seriously, then what would you call it?

[33girl]

There are lots of ways to call a heckler an asshole (starting with, well, asshole) without commenting on their race. If he's definitely guilty of anything, he's guilty of being a lame-o who can't think quickly under pressure.

[CutiePie2000]

His career is done. The End.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I mean I think those guys calling him a cracker is racially insensitive i guess, but its not like i'm outraged or offended.

I figured that much. Many if not most white people aren't that offended by racial epithets directed at them. They may raise an eyebrow but white people know that words used against them haven't historically been used to oppress them. So they can in a sense go in one ear and right out the other.

Racism is a system of differential opportunity and treatment that goes beyond hurt feelings or being offended. It isn't contingent upon being prejudiced toward a group of people to the point of disliking them. You can never ever use or even think the N word and still be a racist white person.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by cutie_cat_4ever

Well, nowadays, even if you said the n-word, you may not be seen as a racist due to the fact that the entertainment/music world has been overusing this word that people have been become insensative about it.

Incorrect.

Even with the derivatives of the word, the N word will always have a place in history and in the hearts of many Americans. The entertainment world hasn't made it appropriate for white people to say the N word. The only white people I can tolerate saying that word in any form are white sociolinguists and even these professionals try not to overuse that contextual privilege.

[DSTCHAOS]

Did anyone see David Letterman last night? How did it go?

[Drolefille]

The guy actually apologized. Didn't blame alchohol/drugs/bad parenting. Just that he messed up and he was wrong. I give him credit for that. But it seemed the wrong forum for an apology.

[jessXIca]

I think he has some kind of mental health problem. Normal people don't just lose it like that. He was real shaky on Letterman, too.

And I love how he's such a has-been that the media is identifying him as "Kramer" and not by his actual name...

[OtterXO]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Did anyone see David Letterman last night? How did it go?

It was very uncomfortable. He was rambling on about being sorry and that he's not racist. I think he should have left it alone.....the Letterman appearance didn't do much for him.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by cutie_cat_4ever

Well, nowadays, even if you said the n-word, you may not be seen as a racist due to the fact that the entertainment/music world has been overusing this word that people have been become insensative about it.

Yeah . . . this is kind of a cop-out. While context is important (no one will claim that reading Huckleberry Finn out loud makes anyone a 'racist' because they'll be required to speak racial slurs), I'm pretty sure that the 'target group' (in this case, African Americans) haven't really become desensitized to the stigma attached to the word, especially as uttered by white people.

The only people made 'insensative' (sic) about the term are, in fact, people who aren't the 'target', I would posit.

Additionally, referencing pop culture use of racial slurs really isn't comparable to directly yelling the term at someone in public - and even then, it's probably offensive to some, and you would probably never try for a "Nigga please" reference to a black man unless you were extremely close and had precedent for such a comment, right?

Or would you even then?

[Phasad1913]

I have a problem with the wole calling for an apology thing. It irks me. I heard on the news this morning that someone was saying he won't be allowed back into the club until he apologizes and the african american community accepts it or deems him worthy or some mess like that. Why are we the only ones who are supposed to be given an apology? I obviously understand why a person would look to see how black people feel about it because we are the ones who are called niggers but you mean to tell me that no one else cares? Is it really like the rest of the country hears something like this and says "oh that's their problem"? That's a shame if that is the case, although I wouldn't be surprised. I just do not care for the concept that someone should force someone else who says or does something like that to apologize. What is that supposed to do? So many people call us that word all the time so it really means nothing to me if when someone who is popular or famous (even if you are a has-been) says it and is heard by many people saying it apologizes AFTER the fact. He said it, he meant it and its done. So what? The word isn't going anywhere, whites will always call us that, they always have, so just accept that you feel that way about us...period. This fake apologizing for this crap once you've said it and exposed your true feelings is making me sick! The more groups like the naacp and the so-called "leaders" of the black community call for apologies, the more rediculous it sounds and comes across because people continue to come out of their a$$es and use the word. Their apologizing for it doesn't change a thing. I think the anger and energy exerted at times like this should just be used for something more constructive.

AND, I don't care what you say, the man IS racist. You people who are saying this bull about you can say it and not be racist and you don't know what's in his heart and all that mess are walking around with blindfolds on. You don't have to be smacked in the head BY a person while calling you a nigger before you realize the person is a racist person. You also cannot shave parts of the definition of racism off so that what you do or say doesn't fall within it. Everytime something happens that is clearly racism in practice, someone finds a way to argue against it being actually racism. The average person knows racism when they see it and THAT was racism. He may not think he is, he may have never in his life said nigger before, but he may have just been given the wake up call of his life when he lost it and went on the way that he did. It also isn't that big of a deal to call it what it is. It isn't like racism in this country is a new concept. Why wouldn't he be racist? There are plenty of folks here in America who are. I am so tired of people playing this game like people just aren't racist in America and if they are they are so few and far between that the level of racism is negligible. How much is going to have to happen before people listen to what we have been saying forever!? This country hasn't changed as much as whites would like to think it has. Its the PEOPLE who harbor these feelings and always have, its not the government as an entity anymore. The people themselves have not come to terms with these feelings and until that happens things like this will continue to occur.

My main point is this: the man said it and it is clear as day what he meant. There is no reading between the lines to get an indication of a less sinister meaning. He said "throw him out, he's a nigger! he's a nigger". He said "50 year ago we, WE(!) would have had you upside down with a fork up your ass." That's some sick stuff and if you brush it off, then you are just as bad as he is.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by Phasad1913

I have a problem with the wole calling for an apology thing. It irks me. I heard on the news this morning that someone was saying he won't be allowed back into the club until he apologizes and the african american community accepts it or deems him worthy or some mess like that. Why are we the only ones who are supposed to be given an apology? I obviously understand why a person would look to see how black people feel about it because we are the ones who are called niggers but you mean to tell me that no one else cares? Is it really like the rest of the country hears something like this and says "oh that's their problem"? That's a shame if that is the case, although I wouldn't be surprised. I just do not care for the concept that someone should force someone else who says or does something like that to apologize. What is that supposed to do? So many people call us that word all the time so it really means nothing to me if when someone who is popular or famous (even if you are a has-been) says it and is heard by many people saying it apologizes AFTER the fact. He said it, he meant it and its done. So what? The word isn't going anywhere, whites will always call us that, they always have, so just accept that you feel that way about us...period. This fake apologizing for this crap once you've said it and exposed your true feelings is making me sick! The more groups like the naacp and the so-called "leaders" of the black community call for apologies, the more rediculous it sounds and comes across because people continue to come out of their a$$es and use the word. Their apologizing for it doesn't change a thing. I think the anger and energy exerted at times like this should just be used for something more constructive.

AND, I don't care what you say, the man IS racist. You people who are saying this bull about you can say it and not be racist and you don't know what's in his heart and all that mess are walking around with blindfolds on. You don't have to be smacked in the head BY a person while calling you a nigger before you realize the person is a racist person. You also cannot shave parts of the definition of racism off so that what you do or say doesn't fall within it. Everytime something happens that is clearly racism in practice, someone finds a way to argue against it being actually racism. The average person knows racism when they see it and THAT was racism. He may not think he is, he may have never in his life said nigger before, but he may have just been given the wake up call of his life when he lost it and went on the way that he did. It also isn't that big of a deal to call it what it is. It isn't like racism in this country is a new concept. Why wouldn't he be racist? There are plenty of folks here in America who are. I am so tired of people playing this game like people just aren't racist in America and if they are they are so few and far between that the level of racism is negligible. How much is going to have to happen before people listen to what we have been saying forever!? This country hasn't changed as much as whites would like to think it has. Its the PEOPLE who harbor these feelings and always have, its not the government as an entity anymore. The people themselves have not come to terms with these feelings and until that happens things like this will continue to occur.

My main point is this: the man said it and it is clear as day what he meant. There is no reading between the lines to get an indication of a less sinister meaning. He said "throw him out, he's a nigger! he's a nigger". He said "50 year ago we, WE(!) would have had you upside down with a fork up your ass." That's some sick stuff and if you brush it off, then you are just as bad as he is.

So what do you call a person that calls a black man "nigger/nigga" just because he always heres them saying it to each other and didn't think anything bad about it. I don't know if there is actually anyone that naive still left on the planet......but it could happen. Do you call him a racist?