NFL Hazing - Page 3

DeltAlum · #31 08-25-2006, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shinerbock

College students are adults.

Most are. Legally.

Then there's intellectually. Some are.

jon1856 · #32 08-26-2006, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prunetacos

Before antibiotics, before cardiovascular medicine, before insulin, before cancer drugs, before kidney dialysis, before modern emergency surgery techniques, people DID die at a far younger age. However, the age when one acts like a mature, reasoning adult, in control over his or her behavior, and the age when one dies, are probably not strongly related to each other. The fact that we - in general - live longer, doesn't privilege us to behave like children longer.
- Prunetacos

I agree with you on your point. I was getting at how in the 1700 and 1800's, due to the enviroment of the times that people had to take on adult responsiblities.

Enviroment has changed a bit since then.....not too many roving bands of Native-Americans, French, English around looking to kill you or rough farm work, or illness et al.....

jon1856 · #33 08-26-2006, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macallan25

No, I read the full phrase...You said unlike college students....Professional athletes are well paid...................................."

I understood what you were sayinng.

If you had, would not have cut to fit your beliefs.
Which as we know full well are not mine.

jon1856 · #34 08-26-2006, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macallan25

Plenty of college students are well paid.

Wish I had my current Newsweek with me.
Have to wonder how many of those students are on work/study programs or aid programs.
And how many call Mom and Dad.....that is not in Newsday as far as I know...
Mac-is Newsweek ok with you as a source?

Tom Earp · #35 08-26-2006, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltAlum

Most are. Legally.

Then there's intellectually. Some are.

Thank You, someone understands!

Just because the Law supposedly says they are Adults, are they really in thinking when they get away from the Home Strings? No!

It is a new experience for all of them and without Mom and Dad!

WOW, they go crazy dont some of them?

macallan25 · #36 08-26-2006, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jon1856

If you had, would not have cut to fit your beliefs.
Which as we know full well are not mine.

Ok? I read your statement. I am not pitting any personaly beliefs against yours. I simply said that many college students are well paid. Are you going to sit here and disagree with me?

macallan25 · #37 08-26-2006, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jon1856

Wish I had my current Newsweek with me.
Have to wonder how many of those students are on work/study programs or aid programs.
And how many call Mom and Dad.....that is not in Newsday as far as I know...
Mac-is Newsweek ok with you are a source?

Thanks, I don't need a newsweek to tell me that there are college students on financial aid and many that get money from their parents.

Prunetacos · #38 08-26-2006, 03:49 PM

Respectfully, to Jon1856 and macallan25:
You two are BROTHERS in the same fraternity, for goodness sake! The tenor of your exchanges is getting quite testy, fellows. There can be robust discussions here, I'm sure, without necessitating an adrenaline rush. Perhaps the moderator (Mr. Earp) can gently remind everyone of the importance of reason and civility as a balance to our passion on the subject of hazing and RM. I really don't want to read about two SAEs that fought a duel!
- Prunetacos

macallan25 · #39 08-26-2006, 03:52 PM

No, I agree.......I just don't understand what he is trying to do/prove when he directs a post towards me.

Kevin · #40 08-26-2006, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prunetacos

Respectfully, to Jon1856 and macallan25:
You two are BROTHERS in the same fraternity, for goodness sake! The tenor of your exchanges is getting quite testy, fellows. There can be robust discussions here, I'm sure, without necessitating an adrenaline rush. Perhaps the moderator (Mr. Earp) can gently remind everyone of the importance of reason and civility as a balance to our passion on the subject of hazing and RM. I really don't want to read about two SAEs that fought a duel!
- Prunetacos

Prune:

Don't worry about it. I trust that two brothers can have a spirited debate and not take anything personally. Mr. Earp, while being a moderator is not the moderator of this forum -- that'd be me.

As I said, a debate between brothers need not be moderated. I trust that neither one of them is taking anything personally. If you have any concerns, feel free to PM me, or if you do not feel comfortable PMing me, feel free to contact the administrator.

sdbeta1 · #41 08-26-2006, 11:17 PM

So are there any more thoughts out there on hazing laws applying to the NFL or not? We've established that college students, and NFL players are both adults. So why is the NFL's hazing publicized while greek hazing is scorned?

EE-BO · #42 08-27-2006, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdbeta1

So are there any more thoughts out there on hazing laws applying to the NFL or not? We've established that college students, and NFL players are both adults. So why is the NFL's hazing publicized while greek hazing is scorned?

Interesting discussion but the point is being missed as sdbeta1 has pointed out.

Guys pledging a fraternity don't sign $50 million dollar contracts and make big money to provide entertainment for the general public- entertainment that brings millions of dollars of income to the owners of NFL teams, many of which are affiliated with media organizations.

For that matter, if you read a lot of recent books on hazing- or keep track of student publications- you will find that hazing in African American fraternities is often somewhat excused as part of the "black experience" while hazing in traditionally white old money fraternities is considered some evil thing (check out "Wrongs of Passage" as a good example.) This is not to say all African American fraternities universally seek to live under a double standard. They don't (in fact I have never had a member of a predominantly African-American fraternity tell me he thought brutal hazing was part of some uniquely African American experience- it is academia and the media that spread this tale.) But the media certainly handles hazing incidents in fraternities differently based on race.

Fraternity men care about our brothers and our pledges. We do. Sometimes lines are crossed and sometimes bad things happen. And we are not happy about this. In fact, I think it is safe to say that the worst hazing incidents in most chapters are instigated by a very few brothers. The greater sin is when the sensible majority fails to stop these events from happening.

But we are also keenly aware that hazing as it is portrayed in the media is largely politically influenced by organizations who resent and hate men who just happen to have been born white and middle to upper class.

Hazing is a natural human instinct. It happens everywhere you go- from kindergarten to the retirement home. Anytime you enter a new environment, there are certain "tests" you have to pass to be one of the crew.

This does not mean we should excuse the extreme form it often takes in college.

But I also do not excuse the way in which hazing accusations are portrayed in the media following an all too familiar pattern of a certain political line of thought- with a healty dose of concession to hazing that occurs in social avenues that generate significant income from the general public!

macallan25 · #43 08-27-2006, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdbeta1

So are there any more thoughts out there on hazing laws applying to the NFL or not? We've established that college students, and NFL players are both adults. So why is the NFL's hazing publicized while greek hazing is scorned?

I wouldn't even call what happens in professional sports, "hazing." I'd call it a rite of passage. Every major sport in the country has teams that make the rookies and such carry their bags, sing at team meals, tie them up to the goal post, etc. etc.

Tom Earp · #44 08-27-2006, 10:47 AM

Just wondering that if The NFL Teams had Greek letters for names if it would make a difference in the perception of what hazing is?

jon1856 · #45 08-28-2006, 11:14 AM

While not, so far, able to locate any kind of links on/about Pro-sports, found this one on College sports:
80% of Collage athletes victims of hazing!
http://www.thehazinglawyers.com/uplo...t_30__1999.pdf

Found the link on the site of a Texas law office:
http://www.thehazinglawyers.com/Anti-Hazing_Laws.html