We are going to war - Page 3

RACooper · #31 01-09-2003, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudey

"As for Iraq I am glad that Canada has not agreed to send troops (yet) and are waiting for the outcome of the United Nations probe into the weapons of Mass Destruction. "

I'm glad too. That Canadian military can at best be put to use keeping Quebec in check. Now you also say you're waiting for the UN declaration (which by the way is going to state Iraq is a serious violator), but somehow you're already passing along your judgement that the opposite is occuring.

Listen you ingnorant little pissant... if you took you head out of your ass and read reports other than those spoonfed to you by CNN you might have a different view... or at least a more objective view.

Finally your attitude about the Canadian military disgusts me the most.... NO WORDS can describe the anger I feel at comments like this... your ignorant and arogant attitude a fine example of why there is a general dislike for Americans abroad.

ilovemyglo · #32 01-09-2003, 02:00 PM

hat is an odd statement.
I have many friends from other countries- South Africa, England, Poland, Canada and Cuba- and it is funny that you said that because two days ago I was sitting with James (from England) and Daniel (from Canada) and we started talking politics. They told me that around the world most foreigners believe that Americans are rich, greedy and only interested in themselves. But they also agreed that this is the same sentiment all countries have- putting number one first- they are jealous of America's abilities. We have money and resources that many countries do not have access to. This is not just their own respective countries, either. James has lived in Saudi Arabia, Australia, Kenya, United Arab Emirates and the US. Daniel has lived in Canada, France and Indonesia.
Daniel made the point that Canada does whatever the US does, and England tends to follow suit.
It was a really fascinating discussion for me because I have never been outside the US and these men were letting me know what people in the world really think of the US.
My own personal opinion is that we are very strong, we hold a lot of wealth in the world, not to mention we have a better quality of life on average and more opportunities than MOST of the world (not all and not in every situation) but I also believe than when it comes to learning about other cultures and other beliefs many Americans (albeit, not nearly all) are very small minded. It comes from living in a place where you have access to so much.
My friend from South Africa said that he feels like an American now because he doesn't care so much about the plight of the rest of the world. It seems like that to me a lot- I have my safe land and my freedoms, I don't want anyone stepping on them, but I don't always notice what is going on outside of it.

But to say that all of the world hates America, doubt it- jealousy is mistaken for hate a lot.

Rudey · #33 01-09-2003, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RACooper

Listen you ingnorant little pissant... if you took you head out of your ass and read reports other than those spoonfed to you by CNN you might have a different view... or at least a more objective view.

Finally your attitude about the Canadian military disgusts me the most.... NO WORDS can describe the anger I feel at comments like this... your ignorant and arogant attitude a fine example of why there is a general dislike for Americans abroad.

"Listen you ingnorant little pissant"

Quite the man you are. I'm listening...instruct me sir..

"if you took you head out of your ass and read reports other than those spoonfed to you by CNN you might have a different view... or at least a more objective view."

1. The thing is that I don't read CNN usually. I read actual dependable publications, journals, and analyses reports that would bore you and many others.
2. Furthermore, I don't know what I quoted to you that was indicative of the manner in which I get spoonfed such "constructed" views. Perhaps it was my correction of your numbers or bringing up the UN announcement. Maybe I didn't even bring up opinion pieces that would allow you to even make such a claim.

"Finally your attitude about the Canadian military disgusts me the most.... NO WORDS can describe the anger I feel at comments like this..."

I know...I know. To be fair, the comment about Quebec was a little mean. In either case, remember, the truth is sometimes "disgusting".

"your ignorant and arogant attitude a fine example of why there is a general dislike for Americans abroad."

"Ignorant" you claim, yet you can't seem to say why. "Arrogant", yet you can't make a case for that. Confident and intelligent, sure. Case closed, I guess. Charges dismissed and all that good stuff. Next time also remember you are Canada not some distant country complaining against American arrogance. Moreover, this claim to "American arrogance" is itself a whole other topic that I can discuss and punch holes through. ilovemyglo, summarized it pretty well I think so I'll leave that argument alone. And I guess if you have a general dislike for my opinion, you better have a general dislike not just for an American opinion but for the opinion of a foreigner.

Once again, there are other threads on Iraq, should you feel like discussing this. Next time respond in there sweety.

-Rudey
--God Bless America

KillarneyRose · #34 01-09-2003, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KSig RC

They're over there because they're trying to protect our interests. Now, if you're a cynic, you will say that our interest is solely oil. If you're like me, you'll say our interest is in keeping the US safe by quashing those who would harm us. Most likely, it's a little of both.

our interests?

well, we can argue the semantics of the thing later, but that goes nowhere

This isn't the main gist of this post, but I was wondering what you meant by this? I said they're protecting our interests, which I conceded involved both oil and keeping the US safe. I used the plural because oil and our safety are two separate interests. When I wrote only of oil, I used the singular and when I wrote only of our safety I also used the singular. If I could go back, I would write that "our sole interest is oil" instead of "our interest is solely oil" so if that is what you figured was worth arguing about -- you win

. . . but honestly, the reserves being called up have earned every prayer, thought, etc you can give them, b/c for the most part these aren't professional soldiers, not at all. They are regular people, taking a very honorable path to increased benefits and a better life.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "professional soldiers" (guys who wear cammies all the time, pick their teeth with a bowie knife and read "Today's Mercenary"?? lol). I'm guessing you mean that being a soldier (sailor, Marine) is not their fulltime job? You're right about that, but please don't get the idea that these men and women are untrained and are sent overseas having learned nothing about tactics, weapons, shipdriving, what-have-you. Many enlisted Reservists spent several years in their branch of the military before becoming Reservists. In addition, many of the officers are graduates of West Point and the Naval Academy who did their owed time or more then decided to get out and take a fulltime civilian job.

Before my husband's naval reserve unit was shipped out, his men received months of training pertaining to the specific assignment they were given in the middle east. This is in addition to years of training they had while they were on active duty (or, if they were never on active duty, during bootcamp and their Annual Training). I believe that all of my husband's men had qualified for Expert Marksman pistol and rifle medals before they left and the majority were surface warefare qualified. From what I understand, they all perfomed admirably.

Blah, blah, blah...sorry! I didn't mean to keep going on and on. I guess all I wanted to say is that, although the Reservists are by all means regular people taking an honorable path, they are also well-trained and competant soldiers, sailors and Marines.

That said, please keep them all in your prayers and thoughts anyway!

[/B]

LeslieAGD · #35 01-09-2003, 09:27 PM

After reading through this thread - specifically some of the name calling and nastiness - I'd like to remind you all that your attitude isn't necessary or helpful.

God Bless the United States and the brave men and women who stand up and defend it.

Tom Earp · #36 01-09-2003, 10:52 PM

Yea, lets raise the Flag and Fight the Evil Demon!

While I do not condone evrything the the USA does "For The Betterment" of others, many times it is bullshit! It is to Cover Our Asses, and do not forget that!

Hell, have Canadians and Brithish always Followed the Good Old USA, yes, why?

We helped save the British in WW1 and WW II and there along with many others were the Canadians.

Since in the infinite wisdom of OUR Duly Elected Moronic Legislatures we did away with a Military to save money and make it a Civilian Army, now We are going to send men/women away to possibly fight.

It is a hardship on not only the Familys but the People they work for! Well I guess there is plenty of people to replace them for the time they are gone! A, Why, well there are plenty of people looking for jobs!

How many of you have ever been shot? How many of You ever seen a dead body? How many of you ever had blood or mud on you? How many of you ever had to try to get a body into a body bag because there were not enough solid bones in his body?

Yankee Doodle Dandy aint it Folks!!!!!

Yes, it is about Our National Security and Econmics from Despots and Nut Case Midget want to be Kings!

Do I want to see this, HELL NO!

As far as N Korea is concerned, yes they are much more dangerous! Why, because of Losing Face and are Inscrutable! Especially with Atomic capabilities! Does tht worry YOU!

Well, It Damn sure does me!

Does George W want to show His Daddy George H that he is a s good as Daddy? His Daddy should have taken out Sadamnit Huinsain when he had the chance in Kuwait.

But Water over the Damn Dam!

DeltAlum · #37 01-09-2003, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudey
I know...I know. To be fair, the comment about Quebec was a little mean. Next time, if you feel disgusted by my remarks actually discuss why..don't throw such cute words around. Tell me about the bold battles the Canadians faced against the whales or the eskimos or something.

I'm not going to get into this "ignorant/arrogant" discussion, but your comments about the Canadian Defense Forces are out of line. They serve with us in many parts of the world, but perhaps most notably NORAD (Which is the NORTH AMERICAN Aerospace Defense Command. That includes both of us.

And, who do you think those guys with the funny helmets were just down the beach (at Utah Beach) from us on D-Day? Oh, they were there to protect England? So were we, among other things.

Disagree with the coming "War" all you want -- I've got some pretty serious misgivings myself, and if it were up to me, I'd want a whole lot more proof before invading. But, it ain't me.

I've already lived through one war that had questionable reasons for being.

texas*princess · #38 01-18-2003, 07:21 PM

Protests on the war on Iraq are all over the news [and on college campuses] which got me wondering...

do all the protests make a difference?

I can't help but wonder.. because with all the thousands of troops that have already been sent overseas, do you think they made their decision already?

ZTAngel · #39 01-18-2003, 08:22 PM

My feeling is that no matter how much protesting we do, war is inevitable.
Could this be WWIII? I was talking to my father about this the other day. Think about it:
The United States (along with the help of other nations) is fighting Afghanistan, Iraq, North Korea.
South Korea vs. North Korea
Israel vs. Palestine
Russia has their own war within and outside their country

During WWII, people didn't know when to finally call it a World War. It wasn't until the war was almost over that it finally became WWII.

ChiOqt · #40 01-18-2003, 08:50 PM

There was a going away party the other night for a brother of Phi Sigma Kappa who was called to active duty from the reserves. If everyone on this board would think about what was going on, the name calling and debating is completely unnecessary with a topic such as this! My prayers are with everyone going over to seas, their friends, families, and loved ones!

Tom Earp · #41 01-18-2003, 08:59 PM

The decision has been made! Bomb Iraq!

What I would like to KNOW is if the USA Government pukes in HIGH places know where "These Weapons of Mass Destruction" are, damn am I getting tired of that termenology, then why do they not tell the UN Inspectors so they can go check!???

Golly Gee Whiz, they found some empty containers. So What!!

If have proof, give proof, find proof , report proof!

Hell, it dont get any simpilar than that!

Saber rattling is bull shit!

That is on the State Department Level, and just what do they know!

Their self importance is underwhelming but the Govt. (OURS) listens!

AllI know, I wish WE HAD HARRY TRUMAN once again in this situation.

This is not WW I or WWII, these asswholes dont fight fair!

They would rather blow up civilans in their petty little minds to make a so called statement!

Terrorism is right!

If we are going into the middle East, lets just blow up the whole damn region! Then All of Africa, Asia and anyone who doesnt want to be oppresed!

Ha, why dont we keep the oil being pumped out of Alaska now in this country?

Why do we need to open new oil feilds?

Why is only 1 out 10 oils pumps being in use in this country?

If you are going to argue the facts, then give the facts!

The Oil Crisis, there were many ships floating wast of Cal. laying low in water, full of crude but far enough to not beeing seen!

Shit, learn about what is going on before you speak and print on site!

Thanks, My london Broil is burning!

Later Ya All!

JWOW, doing it again!

DeltAlum · #42 01-18-2003, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by texas*princess
Protests on the war on Iraq are all over the news [and on college campuses] which got me wondering...

do all the protests make a difference?

I can't help but wonder.. because with all the thousands of troops that have already been sent overseas, do you think they made their decision already?

In reverse order, yes, I think the President has made a decision. I think it's been made for a long time. Now, we're going through the pre-game posturing.

Protests made a significant difference in the Vietnam era -- but it took 10 years (and 50,000 casualities).

I wonder, too. I wonder where the proof of the Wepons of Mass Destruction is.

justamom · #43 01-19-2003, 10:23 AM

I HATE this thread...because it makes me think.
I don't know WHAT I believe any more. Actually, I don't believe any single side of the issue. All I DO know is innocent lives will be lost, families will mourn and what will we really gain? There will NEVER be "peace" in this world and all in the name of my God or YOUR God?!? IS oil another name for what we worship? I just don't know...

As far as the protests go, I do see a difference. At least they aren't spitting on our soldiers and calling them baby killers...yet. They did say after it broke up, many went over to another interest group. You know, there ARE career protesters...

I too wonder if this will be WWlll.

Calling up the reserves- I think I have to agree with KSig RC. We have an attorney friend and the casheir at the neighborhood market going. They are wonderful people who I worry about because I know they are more a reflection of civilian life than seasoned soldiers.

We say they are brave. We say their families are as well. But then, is it bravery if you have no choice in the matter? Is it not rather the more honorable, fulfillment of a "duty"? How many young BOYS actually joined thinking- let's duke it out or nuke it out? (I'm getting so upset I want to cry)

If my son had to fight, I would NOT be brave,I would be angry-angry at the WORLD. I would NEED to see proof-I would NEED to know WHAT my son is risking his life for. Asking us to "trust" in our leaders' judgement is too much when there are so many "agendas" floating around-the economy-oil-world bank-to name a few. All this war rhetoric babbled from the hill and tired cliche's just don't cut it.

GOD BLESS AND KEEP OUR SONS AND DAUGHTERS SAFE FROM THE ENEMY- WHOEVER IT MAY BE

moe.ron · #44 01-19-2003, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by justamom
I HATE this thread...because it makes me think.
I don't know WHAT I believe any more. Actually, I don't believe any single side of the issue. All I DO know is innocent lives will be lost, families will mourn and what will we really gain? There will NEVER be "peace" in this world and all in the name of my God or YOUR God?!? IS oil another name for what we worship? I just don't know...

As far as the protests go, I do see a difference. At least they aren't spitting on our soldiers and calling them baby killers...yet. They did say after it broke up, many went over to another interest group. You know, there ARE career protesters...

I too wonder if this will be WWlll.

Calling up the reserves- I think I have to agree with KSig RC. We have an attorney friend and the casheir at the neighborhood market going. They are wonderful people who I worry about because I know they are more a reflection of civilian life than seasoned soldiers.

We say they are brave. We say their families are as well. But then, is it bravery if you have no choice in the matter? Is it not rather the more honorable, fulfillment of a "duty"? How many young BOYS actually joined thinking- let's duke it out or nuke it out? (I'm getting so upset I want to cry)

If my son had to fight, I would NOT be brave,I would be angry-angry at the WORLD. I would NEED to see proof-I would NEED to know WHAT my son is risking his life for. Asking us to "trust" in our leaders' judgement is too much when there are so many "agendas" floating around-the economy-oil-world bank-to name a few. All this war rhetoric babbled from the hill and tired cliche's just don't cut it.

GOD BLESS AND KEEP OUR SONS AND DAUGHTERS SAFE FROM THE ENEMY- WHOEVER IT MAY BE

Maybe against the war, but I would never call these soldiers baby killer, maybe bush, cheney, rumsfield, and rice, but not the soldier, as long as they are within the rule and regulation.

And JAM, sometime the enemy is closer then u think. And that enemy is apathy.

Sistermadly · #45 01-19-2003, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DeltAlum

I'm not going to get into this "ignorant/arrogant" discussion, but your comments about the Canadian Defense Forces are out of line. They serve with us in many parts of the world, but perhaps most notably NORAD (Which is the NORTH AMERICAN Aerospace Defense Command. That includes both of us.

Not to mention the ones who were killed in a "friendly fire" incident by American bombers while helping to fight the war on terror in Afghanistan.

It's hard to read discussions like this when I'm an American who is fiercely protective of her new home.