Chapter Closings/Hazing and Alcohol

[shadokat]

DeltAlum--

You know, I thought exactly the same thing when I read the digest this morning. What does it take for folks to wake up and realize that what they're doing is so detrimental?? I can't understand how, after losing a brother in their own fraternity, this group can continue to practice this way. It's so disheartening to know that people just don't get it. I hope we all look out for our brothers and sisters, and have the sense to just not participate in this behavior anymore. Animal House is over!

[DeltaBetaBaby]

I have been to IU, and I am going to share my opinion, whether you all want it or not.

IU houses are all located in a "Greek Village," a decent distance from anything else.

Women who pledge an NPC group generally live in their chapter house sophomore, junior, and senior year (I am not sure if this is similar to fraternities), unlike other campuses where the older members usually get apartments.

The bar age in Bloomington is 21.

Basically, the students at IU have nowhere to party. We all know you can't tell college students not to party, especially not at a Big Ten school. So they are going to find a place, in this case, the Greek houses.

IU administration mandates that all Greek houses are dry.

As long as a chapter is breaking the rules, they may as well go all out: free-flowing alcohol, jungle juice, kegs, etc. Additionally, if there is an emergency, no one wants to get busted, so a member with alcohol poisoning is not likely to get medical attention. Instead, his brothers are likely to feel that they are qualified to "take care of him" (read: throw him in the shower until he sobers up).

So what would happen if alcohol was allowed at the houses? Maybe there could be a peer-monitoring system. The university could know in advance who was having parties and when. Maybe alcohol could be restricted to canned beer. Maybe the chapter wouldn't be afraid to seek medical attention if someone needed it. Maybe several sober monitors would be required.

Is this a crazy idea? Not really, it seems to be working just fine on my campus.

[DeltAlum]

D.B.B.

I think the point(s) here is/are:

Underage drinking is against the LAW whether houses are dry or not.

Right or wrong, the rule is dry housing at the university.

There is a history of violations, particularly at Pike.

There have been two deaths -- both alcohol related -- one at Pike.

If anyone or any group knowingly didn't get medical attention form someone who needed it, that's beyond comprehension. And it's probably leagally actionable.

The University, Chapter, Nationals, officers and advisors can all be sued, and may be liable.

Greeks have enough problems as it is now getting liability insurance.

You are only partially correct in you comment about a Greek Village. I've also been to IU to guest lecture. There are actually two or three major Greek areas on different sides of the campus. And it seemed to me that there were bars and clubs in the town.

Bottom line to me is that while I don't agree with dry housing -- it is the rule and the rule was broken. Maybe it would be better to make the beer drinking age 18 as it was in Ohio when I was in college. I don't know whether it would be or not. But it isn't.

I suppose what bothers me most is not learing from past problems and mistakes. That's just plain dumb.

It is just really sad to see FIVE chapters closed on any campus. At least four of them for alcohol violations. It isn't like they don't know the rules.

It doesn't help the Greek System -- it hurts. Especially on one of the major Greek campuses in the country.

[33girl]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
Maybe it would be better to make the beer drinking age 18 as it was in Ohio when I was in college. I don't know whether it would be or not. But it isn't.

I think this would help a great deal - even if it was 3.2 beer. Kind of alcohol training wheels so to speak. If you were 18 and that was legal, I think people would stay to it and not break the law. As I see now people are "learning" to drink on Wild Turkey and the like.

I suppose what bothers me most is not learing from past problems and mistakes. That's just plain dumb.

(sounding like your parents comment ahead) When you are 19 years old in 2001, 1998 sounds like it's 50 years ago. You were in high school then - your whole life is different. There is a turnover at colleges every 4 years and a very short memory. lifesaver said something about "college time" - that is very true - when I look back I can't believe that was only 4 years of my life because so much happened.

The main thing this says to me is that alcohol free housing (at least at IU) is doing very little to improve the safety, health or drinking habits of students. This might be working at other schools, but at this one, it seems all it's doing is taking liability off the school and the groups and actually encouraging dangerous behavior. It's a bridge that only goes halfway across the river.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

DeltAlum,

You are right; I am totally arguing the wrong issue. If dry housing is the rule, that is what should be followed.

I am not saying it is in any way right, but remember, we are teenagers. We still think we are invincible. Sometimes we just need our hands to be held a little.

[shadokat]

In a system as large and thriving as the Greek System at IU, you would think there would be more to do than drink. I agree with you Delt, that the drinking age should be lowered. I mean, I drank a hell of a lot more at a frat house when I paid $2 at the door, was given a cup, and was there from 10-2. On the other hand, at the bar, I was more apt to drink less, because it was $2.50 a beer!

On a campus like IU, which I've never been to, the university has to help themselves when it comes to liability, and that's why the alcohol free housing went into place. I can understand that people want to party and drink...that's fine! But this chapter obviously hasn't learned from its mistakes, and while alcohol education is useful, apparently it hasn't worked there. I hope that IU's fraternities see that five of their brother groups have been banned and think twice when they choose to break the rules.

[DeltAlum]

I'm tired. Our daughter presented us with our first grandchild today, so I hope the following makes some sense.

My thoughts on this thread have absolutely nothing to do with changing anyone's drinking habits. Dry housing won't do that. I think it was James who correctly pointed out that this is totally a liability issue. But that's important. Chapters can't survive without liability insurance. People are bringing suits against everyone these days. As an alumni volunteer, that scares me.

On the other hand, I don't think that you could successfully argue that enforced dry housing causes more people to drink. I think the bridge goes all the way. It just may not reach the intended destination.

It's also a thread about being smart. If you break the rules and the law -- that's not smart. If you get caught, you're going to pay the price. If I saw one chapter closed for breaking the rules, I'd pay attention. If I saw a second one, I'd take it really seriously. These guys have seen four chapters close in the past eighteen months and still don't get it. They'll probably be the fifth.

Geez. If you're going to break the rules, don't do it in the fraternity house. There's already a target on the front door as far as the university and cops are concerned.

I know that lots of undergraduates are going to drink. All I would like to see is some intelligence and moderation. I'm not advocating breaking the law. I'm not in favor of breaking your National rules. I'm not saying it's OK. I'm not giving permission. In the best of all worlds, everyone would wait until they are of age to drink. But I know that's simply not going to happen.

Since I was the poster child for underage drinking when I was young, I would be terribly hypocritical to just say "DON'T." (Even though that would be best for all involved) If or when you get caught, however, why take the chance of taking the rest of the fraternity or sorority down the tubes with you? That's being doubly dumb.

And for your own sake, use a little common sense and moderation. As I said somewhere, just because I lived through it, doesn't mean you will. Drink responsibly. If you're not mature enough to do that -- then don't drink.

By the way, the 18 year old drinking age in Ohio was for 3.2 (we called it "low") beer. What most people don't realize is that that percentage is only the "upper" limit of the brew. "High" beer (6 or 7%) again was only the upper limit. A low beer might be 3.2% and a high beer might be 3.3%. And you can get pretty well trashed on either. Thus speaketh the voice of experience.

I hope that made some sense.

DeltAlum

[DeltAlum]

Uh...back again,

I just received a fraternity risk management newsletter (FRMT News) mailed by the company that works with about twenty fraternities on their liability self insurance. Following are some sobering (no pun intended) thoughts:

"Students consume 4.4 billion cans of beer each year. The typical student spends more money on alcohol than on textbooks. As many of today's college students will die from alcohol related causes as will go on to get advanced degrees, masters and doctorates combined." (I assume that this stat means throughout a persons entire life -- not just college career)

"A recent study of fraternity insurance claims showed that alcohol was involved in 94% of sexual assaults."

"Alcohol Free chapter houses are here to stay. What prompted this move? For the leaders of many groups the reasons were clear cut:

1. The negative effect of alcohol on academics.
2. The ever-increasing cost of liability insurance.
3. Damages to Chapter houses.

The signs of chemical dependency are:

1. Loss of control.
2. The use is excessive
3. Much time is spent using and recovering.
4. Using at inappropriate times.
5. Using becomes the priority.
6. Person continues using despite suffering problems.
7. Person builds up tolerance.
8. Person experiences withdrawal.

These signs all point to alcohol or drug addiction. If you or someone you know might have a problem, consult your chapter advisor and/or campus counseling center."

Portions reprinted from "Risky Times", Risk Management newsletter published by Theta Xi Foundation.

I also just added a post under "Alcohol Free Housing" which was of interest to me and may be to you. I have said in this or other threads that I am not totally in favor of "Dry" housing, but this other post makes a good argument for it.

[33girl]

First off congrats Grandpa

Originally posted by DeltAlum
My thoughts on this thread have absolutely nothing to do with changing anyone's drinking habits. Dry housing won't do that. I think it was James who correctly pointed out that this is totally a liability issue. But that's important. Chapters can't survive without liability insurance. People are bringing suits against everyone these days. As an alumni volunteer, that scares me.

On the other hand, I don't think that you could successfully argue that enforced dry housing causes more people to drink. I think the bridge goes all the way. It just may not reach the intended destination.

I think the "not reaching the intended destination" is probably more what I wanted to say.

See, maybe I'm expecting too much, but as much as it has been publicized and touted, I WOULD expect dry housing to do more than lessen liability and keep the house neat. I'd hope it would show people you can have fun without alcohol - show that Greeks do not drink 24/7 - and make people think more about alcohol before they get poop-faced. In my mind, dry housing should be just ONE PART of getting undergraduates to live in a healthy way, realize their limits and use alcohol correctly. If you don't do that, then that says to me that you don't give a crap about the people involved, just the threat of lawsuits.

But in this case, all it seems to be doing is taking the party from point A to point B. I don't know much about IU's dry housing initiative, but I would hope to heaven that it included some sort of alcohol education and alternatives with it. If all they did was pass this "dry Greek system" policy without much thought, believing it would win them all sorts of good publicity, then that lack of vision has certainly come back to bite them in the ass. As they say, "don't let your mouth write a check your body can't cash."

[DeltAlum]

33Girl,

Here comes that low flying pig you mentioned one time before...

I couldn't agree with you more. That's why I'm not totally sold on dry housing.

However, if it will allow chapters to stay alive by lowering insurance rates -- and if it does save some amount of grief by putting the responsibility and liability on someone else's shoulders who may have more of a vested interest (like they're business, liquor license, etc.), then I'm willing to give it due consideration.

DeltAlum

[Tom Earp]

Tom, you and i and all of the GCers know that as Alums and Active members, that drinking will go on!

People go to college to get out on their own for the first timme and spread their wings.
Guys want to meet Girls, Girls want to meet Guys and see what life is really about without being under the thumb of the protective parent.

I got sick in a bar one night and was asked to leave for that reason, not because I was drunk, but somthing about losing his mother of which I had not tolong before that!

i left the bar and and went with our designated driver to pick up guys who had the sense not to drive!

After Initiation we had a new Brother start chugging a bottle and I stepped in on that!1
There is nothing wrong with social drinking, but there is when it is taken to extremes!

[James]

So why are all our best stories usually about how either we or someone we know was on a mission and went over the bend, crossing over from social drinking to Urban Legend?

Like the time I was too drunk to drive my own car home, but was sober enough in my own mind to answer the dare from the pretty girl in the backseat, and climb out the window and on to the roof of my car(we were only doing about 50mph) and ride in a straddle for a few miles( the sun roof made it easier to grip but don't try it at home kids).

Of course had I fallen off, especially during the tricky: climbing out and in the window part, it would have been a tragic and probably (hopefully) fatal accident. But Gods, it was fun at the time!

A lot of our stories are like that . . . had something gone wrong it would have been tragic or unpleasant, but I would hate to lose my stories. They are cool to tell, and add some depth to me as a person. Woe to those that live life without Risk circumscribed by fear and trepidation, because they are already dead.

I think there was a thread a while back in Chit Chat that had some crazy stuff in it.

[DeltAlum]

James,

What's even more fun is figuring out how to embellish them as time goes on.

Did I ever tell you about the Delt Regatta?

Well, there was this river that used to run by the Delt House. Both have since been moved...

And on and on...

[James]

'tis true, some people are really good at embellishment, or are just better story tellers . . .

James

Originally posted by DeltAlum
James,

What's even more fun is figuring out how to embellish them as time goes on.

Did I ever tell you about the Delt Regatta?

Well, there was this river that used to run by the Delt House. Both have since been moved...

And on and on...

[DeltAlum]

For some reason I can't seem to cut and paste or copy this article, but I think it's important, so I'm going to re-type the whole damn thing. Excuse the typos please...

"Fraternity drinking a thorny problem...
Recent deaths shine spotlight on issue...

By John Meunier
Herald-Times Staff Writer

Dangerous drinking is not unique to fraternities at Indiana University.

Hundreds of students living in dorms and apartments are arrested each year.

IU has disbanded dorm floors in the past to break up groups of students who can't be controlled.

But it is the fraternityy parties that appear to most often display the ugliest underside of the collegiate drinking culture.

Two deaths since 1998 are the starkest examples. IU's dean of students doesn't know of any similar deaths among the rest of IU's student body.

An IU sophomore getting a stomach full of Jim Beam whiskey pumped at Bloomington Hospital Sept. 17 is the latest example.

IU and the fraternity's national headquarters are investigating Pi Kappa Alpha over the hospitalization. A judicial hearing will take place next week.

While fraternities at the national and local level talk about curbing the influence of alcohol. some observers hold out little optimism for deep changes in the fraternity culture.

Jim Arnold, an administrator with the University of Oregon system who wrote his doctoral dissertation at IU on fraternity drinking, campares Greek organizations to alcoholic individuals.

"They say one thing because it is what everyone else in the world wants to hear and they continue doing what they have been doing," he said.

Arnold's dissertation followed a fraternity and its members over a four year period. He found that nearly every event in the life of the chapter was focused on alcohol.

One example was the dad's night ceremony in which pledges were paired with older members. After a night of being blindfolded, yelled at and told they were no good, the pledges' blindfolds were taken off and they were handed beers by their fraternity dads, Arnold reports.

The message: Welcome to the group, have a drink.

National and local surveys show that fraternity and sorority members -- especially those who live in their chapter houses -- drink more and drink more heavily that the student population in general

Popular expectations about what it means to be in a fraternity -- which reach into high school -- perpetuate the drinking culture.

"When you look at the expectations of these people, it's more about getting drunk and getting laid than it is about anything else," Arnold said.

Calls to several chapter presidents of IU fraternities went unreturned this week.

Ben Schmidt, an IU senior and president of the Interfraternity Council, thinks fraternity members don't have a special claim on dangerous or abusive drinking.

The real difference between fraternities and off-campus apartment parties is one of scale, not attitudes, Schmidt said.

"You've got up to 100 guys living in the same place, and when you hold a social function and there is alcohol there, it makes it hard to regulate," he said.

He thinks the real problems are caused by a minority of the members.

"When you look at your chapter's pledge class, you can immediately point out the guys who are going to get it, those who are going to take a little longer and thse who are in it for their own purposes and those are the guys who are going to cause the problems," he said.

Chapters don't do a good job of weeding the troublemakers out, Schmidt said.

Chapters need to do a better job of getting their older members to provide good role models for the younger ones.

Expecting alcohol to disappear from a fraternity or the wider campus scene is unrealistic, he said.

"Just like social life after you graduate from college, alcohol plays a big part in that," he said.

IU education professor George Kuh said there is a difference between social drinking and being part of an organization that is "lubricated by alcohol."

Fraternities have for decades been drinking clubs, he said.

"What is different today is the large numbers of students coming to college who already have binge drinking under their belt," Kuh said.

While that is true of college students in general, Kuh said, fraternities add elements to this mix.

"A big part of this is wanting to belong," he said. "We know the groupthink mentality. This is groupthink which is magnified four five and tenfold. You also have this leftover machismo as well. I can handle anything that you put forward."

No one sets out to hurt another person, but the combination of attitudes about drinking, implicit peer pressure and imparied judgements lead to a dangerous mix.

"You talk to enough undergraduates, you know Thursday night they're goint to get a buzz n," Kuh said. "Once you get that buzz on, you tend to lose your sense of proportion."

While the individual students bear responsibility for their own actions, Kuh thinks the universities need to do more.

"Learning how to use alcohol is a part of coming of age," he said. "The queston is, are we doing as good a job as we can?"

IU Dean of Students Richard McKaig believes IU is doing at least a better job.

The prototypical frat party of the past has been eliminated. It used to be commonplace for four or eight Greek chapters to gather for a party, with dozens of kegs of beer open and freely available to everyone.

There are still big parties in chapter houses. IU freshman Seth Korona died after attending a party in January at which several beer kegs and other forms of alcohol were widely available.

Nonetheless, things are better, McKaig said.

"That doesn't mean that you are taking the fifth of alcohol or six-pack of beer out of the second floor of the house," he said.

If he could change one thing abut the fraternity system, it would be to keep men from joinging chapters until the second half of their freshman or their sophomore years.

"There are some men's chapters that are not well prepared to welcome new students in the first semester," McKaig said.

But he is not in favor of elimninating the fraternity system.

"We're only looking at the fraternities through the lens of the alcohol problem," he said. "From another view, there are many, many positive aspects."


My personal thoughts and comments:

This is a good article that tries to show that alcohol is not only a Greek problem, but, as every national study I've seen shows, is bigger in the fraternity system than the rest of college.

Not that they always work within my own fraternity, but we do have a couple of good ideas. One is the "no common container" rule which bans kegs, etc. I know of one chapter that lost it's Hugh Shields Award (the highest award given to Delt Chapters) when a keg from a party off campus was brought to the Chapter house after the fact. We're real serious about this.

Second is the "Delts Talking About Alcohol" program which is NOT an anti drinking effort, but rather tries to show how to drink responsibly and the potential consequences when that responsibility is not exercized. Specially trained Delt undergraduates travel to each of our chapters yearly to teach DTAA. Every Delt attends at least once.

We need to be more careful about the people we pledge. If the IU IFC President is to be believed, chapters are pledging and initiating men who the recognize as potential problems. What sense does that make? We need to be more selective. That's particularly true given the comments about the numbers of binge drinkers we inherit from high school.

Finally, the IFC President's comment about drinking being a part of social life after college doesn't hold up as well as it would have several years ago. I think that most business professionals will tell you that the notorious "Three martini lunch" is pretty much a thing of the past. You simply don't see that much alcohol in business situations anymore. Many big companies have made their buildings non alcoholic workplaces -- including things like holiday parties. That certainly is not meant to imply that people don't stop for a drink after work -- but it is not the "badge of honor" that is used to be.

I see a lot of unfortunate truth in the article. I also see a compilation of a lot of thoughts and ideas that have been stated in many of these threads before.

So, what do we do about it?

DeltAlum