Has Gospel Music Gone TOO FAR?

[prayerfull]

Originally posted by SeriousAKA
[B...during the Sunday that the Youth conducted the servcice they entered while DMX's prayer was playing. [/B]

Whoa!

Now this got me to thinkin...so I wanted to see what DMX's lyrics are like. So, I went to a couple of lyric sites so that I could check out some of his "prayers". Here's the one off of his latest CD...

"[DMX] Let us pray Father God I am just learning how to pray, so bear with me First I thank you for the life of everyone that's here with me Then I thank you for the love you give me, why? I don't know; I don't deserve it, and it hurts inside Many a nights I cried, and called your name out loud But didn't call you when I was doin good, I was too proud And STILL you gave me love, I wasn't used to that Most of the people that gave me love, they ended up takin it back That's somethin new to me, so I'm askin you for time to adjust Let me make it there, I will be one you can trust What I stand for, I put my life on, I DO! I guess what I'm askin is - show me how to stand for you And I will RAP for you, SING for you, PREACH for you, TEACH for you REACH for you - I will love you like you love me, unconditionally And I will ALWAYS be prepared, for whatever the mission'll be GIVE THE NUTRITION TO ME, and I'll properly digest it And when I give it back, I'll show you word well invested And whenever I go, BEFORE I GO, let me give Thanks to you Lord, my birth, for every day that I've lived You gave me a love most of my life I didn't know was there IN THE NAME OF JESUS! I give you my life, cause you care."

OK...so that's pretty deep...but here's another lyric from one of his other tracks....(moderators will check me HARD if I actually put these lyrics in here, so here's the link...check it for yourself...)
http://www.angelfire.com/hiphop/edog...ression/6.html

I just don't understand how you can say "all of that" and then add in a prayer track. Actually, DMX does A LOT of this on his CD's. I truly believe he his lost in anger.

But, yet and still...to play DMX in CHURCH....Whoa.

[Kisha]

I would have to agree with those who believe that gospel music is for believers. However, I still believe that it is for unbelievers too!

For instance, I know of a couple of folks where a seed was planted from a song. No, I'm not saying that they ran to a church after they heard a lyric, but the words to the song always stuck in their mind and eventually led them to church to learn more about Jesus.

I agree that all youth are not into it. However, there's someone out there buying it because it sells.

There are people who attend church just to find a mate. So, do we label the church as a Christian Dating Center? It was just a thought!

[Diva_56]

Well I don't totally agree with gospel being only for believers, for it was the urging of the Holy Spirit and gospel music that lead me to salvation. Personally I believe that if you are in a church that is not praising God (singing dancing clapping shouting etc.) than something is up and some form of traditional legalism is involved... the same thing Paul talks to the Jews about....


I don't think that there is anything wrong either with "quieter" services but I know when I think about Jesus it makes me shout with joy that he has saved me and brought me to salvation! I will get mad at you if you look me funny if I decide to praise... isn't that what we are here for (church, life) anyway, to praise and worship God all the day?

Oh yeah the butterflying in church is a no no!

Have a little more respect for the Lord than that!

[DoggyStyle82]

I believe that there is a difference between taking the gospel to the world, which is what Jesus and his disciples did, and bringing the world into the gospel. People have become much too complacent and irreverent when it comes to God and Church. His word deserves aa certain level of respect or else it gets put on the same shelf with everything else. If you dress the same way to go to church that you do to go to a club or school, then your reverence level is equal. If you praise the Lord the same way that you dance in a club, then there is little moral or ethical difference in how you approach the two. If you sing or rap the same way about the Lord as you would your hoes, bitches, money, bling bling and Courvosier, what possible dichotomy are you creating between the sacred and the secular. What you get is what we have. Teenage, single mothers bringing babies up to be blessed, women dressed (barely) in mini-skirts,backless outfits, and other revealing garb exposing tattoos on backs, shoulders, thighs, and breasts, men and boys in baggy jeans and Timbs. You get a blurring of the word in which everything is more world centered than morally centered. If its ok to bump and grind and listen to misogynistic, profanity laced , Devil (world) worshipping music, and then get your praise on in the same manner.

Yes, worship should be culturally centered, but AAs have worshipped Jesus for 400 yrs in America without losing its soul to what's hip. The message should always be bigger than the messenger or its packaging. My view is that much of this hip-hop, rapping for the Lord, stepping and so, is for entertaining short attention span youth who aren't being taught the proper way to revere the Word of God. We have dummed-down our schools, our morality, and finally the last bastion of sanctity, our churches.

[Steeltrap]

I was baptized and consider myself Presbyterian, which is a rather staid form of worship, and am considering becoming an Episcopalian. I like quiet, traditional churches.

This is a fascinating thread, because emotionalism in worship is foreign to me. I'm learning a lot, please keep posting.

[NUPE4LIFE]

Teenage, single mothers bringing babies up to be blessed?

Doggystyle, what's wrong with that. We have all sinned and come short of the glory of the lord. It's not the child's fault that he/she was born out of wedlock. We don't have a choice about the situations that bring us into this world, but no matter what we are still God's children. We all need his protection and his blessings. Even though I feel that gospel music hasn't gone too far on the whole, I do agree with you when you say that we must not secularize God.

[ClassyLady]

I see nothing wrong with making gospel music enjoyable and letting youths have fun with church. I saw Kirk Franklin on television a little while back and he made an interesting point. He said that all too often religion focuses on what you can't do rather than what you can. If all we tell our youth is that once they become saved, they have to give up all of the things that they enjoy, what is their incentive to want to accept God into their lives. Saved or not, teenagers, and grown folks for that matter, want to be able to have a good time. I see nothing wrong with letting people know that they can have a good time while being a faithful and active member of the church. Being a Christian should be an enjoyable and rewarding experience. I know that it is for me .

My pastor is a young man and he recognizes this point. Our church has a youth choir that performs lively, and upbeat songs. We sponsor a basketball camp and tournament and praise dancers. We don't have a step team, but I think that would be a great idea. Not everyone can sing, but we can all praise the Lord in our own ways. If you have to make your "joyful noise unto the Lord" by clapping your hands and stomping your feet, I say do your thang. I would much rather have our youth doing these things within the church than with community/secular groups.

As far as gospel rap, I don't really have a problem with that either. But, some of the songs that I heard were more secular songs with the word "God" thrown in every other verse. I heard one song, I think it was by BBJ, talking about "I'm the originator of this gospel rap thing." I thought that line was inappropiate and more suited for a regular hip-hop song.

As long as it's gospel, true gospel, I don't see anything wrong with it. You have to reach people the way that you can reach them. Not everyone will respond to Mahalia Jackson or the Mississippi Mass Choir. There have been a few times that I have been listening to a gospel song that touched my so deeply that I was brought to tears. One song actually helped me redevote myself to the Lord. There's nothing in the world wrong with that.

[DoggyStyle82]

Originally posted by NUPE4LIFE
Teenage, single mothers bringing babies up to be blessed?

Doggystyle, what's wrong with that. We have all sinned and come short of the glory of the lord. It's not the child's fault that he/she was born out of wedlock. We don't have a choice about the situations that bring us into this world, but no matter what we are still God's children. We all need his protection and his blessings. Even though I feel that gospel music hasn't gone too far on the whole, I do agree with you when you say that we must not secularize God.

I said nothing about the children. My point is that it is too acceptable. What possible morality is the church teaching. It must be ineffective or either too many see nothing wrong with the situation. A church has a problem when every Sunday, there is a child be dedicated without a father present. My point is that when you let the world start dictating to the church, the Gospel loses. I don't care whether church is "exciting" or "entertaining". Your main purpose should be to be fed by the word and Christian fellowship. By watering down Church to entertain those with short attention spans or those who don't understand the difference between worship and a party, the Gospel gets minimized or lost. I have heard too many people say, "I had a good time at church/revival", but can't tell you in detail about the sermon or how applicable it is to one's daily life. To each his own though, thats why there are different churches for different tastes. Its just an opinion and not condemnation.

[Blackwatch]

I agree with Doggystyle, The church has gotten away from trying to teach the world about the Gospel and does too much packaging and repackaging of the Gospel to fit the world's tastes. Steping and Dancing in Church maybe suitable for some without loosing the reverence for God's word and Jesus' work on the cross, I see these things as being subjective (to each his own). I have a problem with people redefining what is sin and what isn't sin. I am all for critical examination of our values and if there needs to be a change, than so be it. But let that change come from a better understanding of God's word and therefore God's will, not pressure from secular forces to become more "tolerant" and "politically correct". There must come a time in every believer's life when he or she is confronted with life's deeper questions (What is my purpose? What is Truth?, What is true Righteousness?, etc.) and we can't shout, sing, step, or dance our way around these questions, we have to answer them. The answer comes from critical self examination and critical scripture examination. I wonder how many of these "contemporary" churches are challenging us to grow, confronting us with Truth, and convicting us with love? It's okay to enjoy yourself and enjoy your salvation, but don't do it to the neglect of your spiritual growth. Many of these things that we call enjoyable or entertaining are not profitable for spiritual growth (I am not saying that they are wrong or sinful, I am just saying they shouldn't substitute for an authentic relationship with God through Jesus the Christ). Don't think that just because I sing in the choir, step on the "Holy Ghost step team", preach God's word, etc. that I am therefore saved, without first and daily "denying yourself and carrying the cross" as Jesus commands us.
Again, Great Discussion, I have been truely blessed.
Blackwatch!!!

[FeeFee]

Originally posted by Diva_56
Well I don't totally agree with gospel being only for believers, for it was the urging of the Holy Spirit and gospel music that lead me to salvation. Personally I believe that if you are in a church that is not praising God (singing dancing clapping shouting etc.) than something is truly wrong and some form of traditional legalism is involved... the same thing Paul talks to the Jews about....

Exactly. Let us remember that singing about the Lord is a form of MINISTRY!!! When you are singing, you are not only singing to believers, but to unbelievers as well. You are ministering to people's hearts, minds, souls, etc. There may be someone out there who are dealing with a lot of painful things in their lives, but hearing certain gospel songs enough times can possibly help to ease that pain (Donnie McClurkin's song, "Stand" is a perfect example). Also remember that a great number of these songs are actually Holy Scriptures that have been put in musical form, so people are actually hearing and having the Word of God fed to them as well.

[DoggyStyle82]

Blackwatch, thanks for expanding the thought.

Church should be enjoyable, not fun. You have fun at Chucky Cheese.

Yes, the Holy Ghost should move you to sing, dance, shout, and otherwise praise the Lord, but in an unscripted and uncontrived fashion.

Like Blackwatch said, the Spiritual Growth must surpass all that "holy ghost partying" As someone posted earlier, the prayer by DMX was very deep and illuminates the struggle between wordly desires and a better relationship with God, but at some point, it has to manifest itself with true spirituality.

If your church needs to grow at the detriment of the word, then your church doen't need to grow.

[Miss. Mocha]

I agree with a lot of what Doggystyle is saying.

When Kirk Franklin first came out with "Stomp", I used to wonder what a video like that would have young people thinking. Kids in jeans, laughing, dancing, and joking. Kirk Franklin chilling with Salt (from Salt-N-Pepa). And Salt talking about she was trying to be cute when she praised Him.

I don't know. I have mixed feelings about the topic.

A walk with Christ is not always fun. Walking with Christ is extremely challenging. After all, the enemy ain't trying to corrupt those whose hearts already belong to him. He's trying to get to those of us who belong to the Lord. After Kirk, and the rest of the praise rappers work people up, and (possibly) cause them to think about attending church, what do they do when a problem arises? Do they put "Stomp" into their CD player and feel okay? Does a song like "Stomp" help them feel closer to God and His promises for them? Are these songs and videos sending the wrong messages?

I don't want my daughter bamboozled into thinking that spirituality is ALL about comraderie, good times, and being cute when you praise Him. Some of us know what it's like to praise looking real ugly with tears running all down your face, on your hands and knees begging all alone.

I just hope that the people being fed by the formula that is hip-hop, gansta gospel (or whatever it's called) are seeking meat and potatoes in their spiritual diets as well.

[Eclipse]

I agree, this has been a great discussion. I have so much I could say, but I'll keep it short.



The purpose of any ministry in the Christian church is to point people to the Way, the Truth and the Light: Jesus. If it is not doing that, it is not of God, plain and simple. I think it is o.k. to do things like cartoons for kids, raps for teens, etc. to drawn them to Christ, but after a while they have to get off the bottle and get some meat of the Word. I believe those things (cartoons, raps, etc.) can DRAW you to Christ, but they won't help you GROW with Christ.



Can contemporary Gospel point people to Jesus? Certainly. One of the things I love about Fred Hammond (who has some slamming bass beats in his music) is that his lyrics are from the WORD. Scriptures be all up in his music (ebonics!)



Can Gospel rap point people to Jesus? Yes it can. At my church's annual "Community Impact Day" we had a Gospel rapper who did an excellent job of rapping the Word.



Are there contemporary and rap gospel musicians that are not living up to the standards that they should and compromising the Word? YES!! Those are the folks I have problems with! T



The other problem I have is those "inspirational" singers who refuse to say JESUS. The Winans, who I don't recall anyone mentioning, used to be good about having some song that said things like "HE loves me" "HE does this for me, HE does that for me, etc." with out ever saying the name JESUS. One song, that escapes me right now, I remember thinking that it was a man/woman love song until I realized that it was CeCe Winans! That, to me is unacceptable. Once thing that you can's say about Stompin' Kirk, no matter how you feel about him, is that you have any doubt in your mind who he is talking about. I did have an issue w/ Mr. Franklin though when he was at some awards show and when he sang that part in Stomp that says "He gets me high...up to the sky...(or something like that)" he put 2 fingers up to his lips like he was smoking a joint!! I was like I could not believe he did that and I sure hope he has repented!!



Now, regarding the comment about single mothers getting their children blessed. My church's policy is to bless any child that the parent or parents want blessed, but you best believe everyone, especially if you are not a regular member of the church or not a traditional family you are going to get some words from the Pastor. Now, don't get me wrong, these are not condemning words, 'cause only you and God know what you have repented for, but he is going to talk to you about your situation, YOUR relationship with the Lord and what the entire ceremony is about. It's not just a casual thing about let me buy my child a cute dress and parade him/her in front of the church. One of the most touching moments I have experienced in church was when a teenage member of the church and her boyfriend brought their baby to the church to be blessed. You know the tongues were wagging about that one! The father was not a member of the church, and after he got the words about his responsibility and what he needed to do the young man's conviction was so strong that he gave his life to Christ.



One last thing about secular singers singing gospel songs, especially those that have "questionable" lyrics. I think all of us who proclaim the name of Jesus, famous or not, must be mindful of the contradictions in our lives. On threads like this folks are proclaiming the gospel and gotta Word for someone and on other threads are talking about all kinds of lewd and lascivious things (that they have participated in no doubt!) We never know who may be listening to us, watching us, etc. The Bible says that we should live our lives so that we are not a stumbling block to any one, and while I can appreciate the struggles that we go through and know that each and every day that we take a breath we will also sin, we (whether DMX or Kirk or any other Christian) must do everything to make sure that our behavior is not a stumbling block!



That's it for me!

have a great Labor Day weekend everyone!! I know I will!!

[DELTAQTE]

Good topic, but it seems like some of y'all got some "ghetto" church stories. Please share.


QTE

[Kisha]

Thanks Eclipse!

You hit the nail right on the head.